[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[EJCC]

Question for people who know ESTJs, and also [MENTION=26167]Ursa[/MENTION] and [MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION] and any new ESTJs I haven't met yet:

Are these ESTJ traits?

• Surprising people with unexpected insights, seemingly out of nowhere
• Having unexpected elements of their life story or unexpected skills that people are always shocked to have not heard about earlier

If so, why?

I ask because they are Ron Swanson traits, and also me traits - me to the point of gaining the reputation of being the Ron Swanson of my friend group. (I'm much more emotive than him, and my politics are the opposite of his, but he is still my pop culture patronus.)

 

[SD45T-2]

Question for people who know ESTJs, and also [MENTION=26167]Ursa[/MENTION] and [MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION] and any new ESTJs I haven't met yet:

Are these ESTJ traits?

• Surprising people with unexpected insights, seemingly out of nowhere
• Having unexpected elements of their life story or unexpected skills that people are always shocked to have not heard about earlier

If so, why?

I ask because they are Ron Swanson traits, and also me traits - me to the point of gaining the reputation of being the Ron Swanson of my friend group. (I'm much more emotive than him, and my politics are the opposite of his, but he is still my pop culture patronus.)

Maybe? Could be a developing tertiary Ne thing. I have a variety of interests. Sometimes a thing will catch my attention and then I'll study it for awhile. For some reason I recently went down the Rickenbacker rabbit hole. But I still don't know why they've always used 44 gauge wire on their pickups when just about everybody else was using 42 (the main exception being 43 AWG on Telecaster neck pickups).

 

[Zoeykags]

What is he (ESTJ) thinking when he says I'm not a challenge to him?

ASKING FOR ADVICE!
I'm a female ISFJ dating an ESTJ in a long distance relationship for about six months now and two years relationship as a whole. We had a serious convo when we both were in a bad mood (losing an online game) and he said to me he is uncertain about our relationship. We recently made plans that I will move down from my hometown to where he is. I think it's getting to the both of us with our lives and other stressors (e.g. work) and the moving down as a whole. He said he feels that he doesn't feel the spark like when we first got together and that I am not 'challenging him' where he feels he is better at me in a lot of things (e.g. knowledge, gaming - we met through gaming). He said he is having a hard time 'letting go of things from the past' - aka arguments and like it comes to his mind when we have arguments now. Thus, his patience for me is very thin nowadays. The core is that he isn't sure whether these bad feelings are because we are in long distance, that we haven't seen each other for three months OR that we actually aren't compatiable. Thus we are thinking of rather than a 'permanent move', I should move down temporarily for 2-3 months to see how things are.

My problem is: what is going on in his mind. Like for me a distinct characteristic of an ESTJ is that they 'know what they want' and 'makes decisions'. Right now he is uncertain and all over the place. He can't seem to set in stone that we WILL make this work. His mindset is "i want to try to make this work but I just don't know and I feel bad making you sacrifice your life for me, but at the same time I think the LDR is making our relationship worse."
He also said like he's unhappy with other stuff - e.g. work he's not enjoying it (he moved from our hometown there - had to start a new life etc.) and he's been lazy and not doing stuff. So I don't know if it's these things that is making him internally unsatisfied with life so he is looking at me to 'motivate and challenge him'. For me, I have no problem with 'motivation, challenges or being satified with my life' because I don't look at him to seek those validation. This is not the first time him bringing up the fact that he feels like he can 'teach' me stuff but I'm not teaching him and he is not learning anything from me. Yet I've explained time and time again, my strength is the emotional areas (empathy, emotional thinking and deciphering feelings) and at one point previously he said he understood that I don't have to be able to 'teach him' but now it's coming back up again. He doesn't feel the spark, he is unsure about me moving down and can't find a job affecting my career. Like all these things don't come into our conversation unless something happens and I'm angry at him or he is angry before it comes out. I don't know if it's something coming up because we were both in a bad mood, or the LDR or just that he and I aren't really into the relationship/not compatiable.

What is he thinking? IF we want to make this work, what should I/We do? Is this normal for a ESTJ to be so flickle? Are we doomed? Is it actually worth moving down to 'test' whether we actually work - at this point I'm just so torn to try it because my personality is that I don't want to leave any question or regrets, but it's kind of like these issues, it's something internal for him and I have no idea what I can do or say to stablise this relationship.

 

[EJCC]

ASKING FOR ADVICE!
I'm a female ISFJ dating an ESTJ in a long distance relationship for about six months now and two years relationship as a whole. We had a serious convo when we both were in a bad mood (losing an online game) and he said to me he is uncertain about our relationship. We recently made plans that I will move down from my hometown to where he is. I think it's getting to the both of us with our lives and other stressors (e.g. work) and the moving down as a whole. He said he feels that he doesn't feel the spark like when we first got together and that I am not 'challenging him' where he feels he is better at me in a lot of things (e.g. knowledge, gaming - we met through gaming). He said he is having a hard time 'letting go of things from the past' - aka arguments and like it comes to his mind when we have arguments now. Thus, his patience for me is very thin nowadays. The core is that he isn't sure whether these bad feelings are because we are in long distance, that we haven't seen each other for three months OR that we actually aren't compatiable. Thus we are thinking of rather than a 'permanent move', I should move down temporarily for 2-3 months to see how things are.

My problem is: what is going on in his mind. Like for me a distinct characteristic of an ESTJ is that they 'know what they want' and 'makes decisions'. Right now he is uncertain and all over the place. He can't seem to set in stone that we WILL make this work. His mindset is "i want to try to make this work but I just don't know and I feel bad making you sacrifice your life for me, but at the same time I think the LDR is making our relationship worse."
He also said like he's unhappy with other stuff - e.g. work he's not enjoying it (he moved from our hometown there - had to start a new life etc.) and he's been lazy and not doing stuff. So I don't know if it's these things that is making him internally unsatisfied with life so he is looking at me to 'motivate and challenge him'. For me, I have no problem with 'motivation, challenges or being satified with my life' because I don't look at him to seek those validation. This is not the first time him bringing up the fact that he feels like he can 'teach' me stuff but I'm not teaching him and he is not learning anything from me. Yet I've explained time and time again, my strength is the emotional areas (empathy, emotional thinking and deciphering feelings) and at one point previously he said he understood that I don't have to be able to 'teach him' but now it's coming back up again. He doesn't feel the spark, he is unsure about me moving down and can't find a job affecting my career. Like all these things don't come into our conversation unless something happens and I'm angry at him or he is angry before it comes out. I don't know if it's something coming up because we were both in a bad mood, or the LDR or just that he and I aren't really into the relationship/not compatiable.

What is he thinking? IF we want to make this work, what should I/We do? Is this normal for a ESTJ to be so flickle? Are we doomed? Is it actually worth moving down to 'test' whether we actually work - at this point I'm just so torn to try it because my personality is that I don't want to leave any question or regrets, but it's kind of like these issues, it's something internal for him and I have no idea what I can do or say to stablise this relationship.

This is what it looks like when an ESTJ doesn't know what they want. When it all comes down to feelings and not objective factors that you can weigh in one direction or another - and you're not sure what your feelings have to say on the matter. Inferior Fi ends up requiring that you basically sit and wait and think about things until you magically come up with a decision. But waiting for that really sucks - for both of you.

I don't think you're necessarily doomed, but I do think you need to have many more conversations with him - and I think coming down to visit him should help with initiating those conversations and coming to an actual conclusion. You may not need to go for 2-3 months, but you should go for long enough to spend some time with him and hash things out. It's possible you'll need to go home and wait for him to think things through. It's possible he'll take so long to think things through that you'll need to (or want to, or actually) break up with him. But there's only one way to find out.

 

[Zoeykags]

This is what it looks like when an ESTJ doesn't know what they want. When it all comes down to feelings and not objective factors that you can weigh in one direction or another - and you're not sure what your feelings have to say on the matter. Inferior Fi ends up requiring that you basically sit and wait and think about things until you magically come up with a decision. But waiting for that really sucks - for both of you. I don't think you're necessarily doomed, but I do think you need to have many more conversations with him - and I think coming down to visit him should help with initiating those conversations and coming to an actual conclusion. You may not need to go for 2-3 months, but you should go for long enough to spend some time with him and hash things out. It's possible you'll need to go home and wait for him to think things through. It's possible he'll take so long to think things through that you'll need to (or want to, or actually) break up with him. But there's only one way to find out.

What kind of conversation should I be having with him? On my perspective I feel as though when he said all this, he doesn't feel motivated in general, like he wants to get fit but since moving away from his friends who boxed together- he's not finding it as challenging or enjoyable where he is. For me the thing about challenging also came up because we game together and he's is a higher ranking than me. He's been frustrated at me for not "improving". However I feel like the root of issue is because his friends who were in the same or higher ranking than him no longer plays that game.
Im just not sure what to do if I move down to make sure he's not being lazy and I'm making him motivated or feel challenged. I feel like after a long day of work you deserve a good rest and you don't need to push yourself that hard unless you yourself what to. What should I try to talk to him about?
also when you say there's only one way to find out- you mean break up?

 

[EJCC]

What kind of conversation should I be having with him? On my perspective I feel as though when he said all this, he doesn't feel motivated in general, like he wants to get fit but since moving away from his friends who boxed together- he's not finding it as challenging or enjoyable where he is. For me the thing about challenging also came up because we game together and he's is a higher ranking than me. He's been frustrated at me for not "improving". However I feel like the root of issue is because his friends who were in the same or higher ranking than him no longer plays that game.
Im just not sure what to do if I move down to make sure he's not being lazy and I'm making him motivated or feel challenged. I feel like after a long day of work you deserve a good rest and you don't need to push yourself that hard unless you yourself what to. What should I try to talk to him about?
also when you say there's only one way to find out- you mean break up?

Part of why I think you should talk to him is because it's clearly not just about gaming. No one in such a serious relationship would want to break up with someone just because of that. There's more going on there than just that. I hesitate to give you any more detail because 1) I don't have enough information and 2) I am not a couples counselor (and you may want to consider the possibility of couples counseling if you haven't yet).

 

[Fidelia]

I think his dissatisfaction in other areas of life have a lot to do with his unsureness about you. Estjs generally don't seem to like dwelling on underlying reasons for what's bothering them (ejcc may be an exception) but can be extremely distressed by the situation nonetheless and seem to withdraw when that happens. They are more action oriented, so if there's something keeping them from taking action, this state of limbo can also be very frustrating.

I of course am no expert, nor do I know the two of you, but probably giving him some space in the run up to moving isn't bad, and then deciding on how you will determine whether your move warrants continuing or not and what criteria you'll use to decide could be useful. Set the date you will eventually discuss it and assess it BEFORE you move, rather than when you are waiting for his verdict after a few months.

 

[Zoeykags]

What usually makes an ESTJ, make a decisive decision? Because I don't think "talking" exactly helps him figure things out. As I said I'm good with these types of things whilst he is not. Yet when I sit down to try to talk to him for a prolong amount of time he just says he needs time to think, but it's not really getting anywhere because like a few weeks it will be fine then He becomes indecisive. It's like a repeating cycle. I've heard from ppl that like breaking up is probably the only truest way for him to figure things out. But we actually had broken up once before for similar issues- him not happy when certain traits of mine, yet a few months later he is like maybe those issues really aren't a issue. Is there any way I can help this situation without breaking up- because I will not take him back a third time even if I had to die alone.

 

[Ursa]

Question for people who know ESTJs, and also [MENTION=26167]Ursa[/MENTION] and [MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION] and any new ESTJs I haven't met yet:

Are these ESTJ traits?

• Surprising people with unexpected insights, seemingly out of nowhere
• Having unexpected elements of their life story or unexpected skills that people are always shocked to have not heard about earlier

If so, why?

I ask because they are Ron Swanson traits, and also me traits - me to the point of gaining the reputation of being the Ron Swanson of my friend group. (I'm much more emotive than him, and my politics are the opposite of his, but he is still my pop culture patronus.)

Negatory on the first bullet point - I am super extroverted and always interested in expanding my territory and social circle. People know by word of mouth what I can do and they know they can depend on me and look to me for guidance. I can seem really rough at times (especially online), but in real life I am people-oriented, have various leadership experiences and want everyone to know they are protected and looked out for. Community members come to me for advice or for an advocate when they are down. (I swear I don't mean this conceitedly.)

Definitely yes on the second bullet point. People get surprised when they learn I have three cats and I talk to them in baby talk, or that I like cultivating flowers!

A lot of this is probably enneagram-related. I have met other ESTJs with Ron Swanson traits for sure. I hope you aren't worried, [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]. What you posted sounds normal for many ESTJs.

 

[Red Ribbon]

Dear ESTJs

Do you treat people differently based on how close you are to them? For example, showing more warmth to certain friends because you feel closer to them, or do you treat all friends equally? Also are you sweet and cute in romantic relationships? Do you show a completely different side to your partner?

 

[EJCC]

Dear ESTJs

Do you treat people differently based on how close you are to them? For example, showing more warmth to certain friends because you feel closer to them, or do you treat all friends equally? Also are you sweet and cute in romantic relationships? Do you show a completely different side to your partner?

I definitely don't treat all friends equally - some of that is because I'm significantly more awkward in one-on-one interactions than in group interactions until I get to know the person better, and some of that is because I'm very different with different people. I'm warmer with people who are warm to me, I'm quieter with strong extroverts, I'm more talkative with introverts, I'm less inhibited with people who take bluntness well... &c.

I think I'm pretty cute in romantic relationships I do small, sweet, considerate things for the person. It's not a huge transformation, but it's cute because it's a surprise, and because it's special and vulnerable.

 

[SD45T-2]

Also are you sweet and cute in romantic relationships? Do you show a completely different side to your partner?

I haven't really had any romantic relationships. I think I've been through limerence once, which was absolutely nuts. I somehow managed to not do anything too horribly embarrassing and after awhile I realized I should stop pursuing it because it became apparent that our lives were going in opposites directions; hers was going up and mine was going down. Took me about 2 years to get over it, IIRC.

 

[Norexan]

For ESTJs...
Why ESTJs are best in making decision?

 

[Sil]

Question for people who know ESTJs, and also [MENTION=26167]Ursa[/MENTION] and [MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION] and any new ESTJs I haven't met yet:

Are these ESTJ traits?

• Surprising people with unexpected insights, seemingly out of nowhere
• Having unexpected elements of their life story or unexpected skills that people are always shocked to have not heard about earlier

If so, why?

I ask because they are Ron Swanson traits, and also me traits - me to the point of gaining the reputation of being the Ron Swanson of my friend group. (I'm much more emotive than him, and my politics are the opposite of his, but he is still my pop culture patronus.)

The first, no. I have a reputation for it, so it's something people specifically come to me for.

The second, yes, but it depends on the person. Some are not surprised, some are. I have a wide variety of less than expected interests.

I could see it being related to Ne, but I think it could also be Si at play. Si takes a very personalized perspective of the world, so it would make sense that the output of Si would reflect that.

 

[Sil]

Dear ESTJs

Do you treat people differently based on how close you are to them? For example, showing more warmth to certain friends because you feel closer to them, or do you treat all friends equally? Also are you sweet and cute in romantic relationships? Do you show a completely different side to your partner?

I'm fairly equal in my treatment of people I consider friends. If there is any difference, it's probably that I am rougher on the people I am close to. I am more invested in them, so I am more engaged in their lives.

Nothing to add to the romantic partner aspect.

 

[Sil]

Do you ever get mistaken for a xNxP type as Ne is your tert function?

Often. So often I've seriously considered switching my type. I have an exceptionally strong relationship with my Ne. It's showy enough that it masks many typical ESTJ elements of my nature, but it's also too clumsy to be my dominant function.

Although people with a psych background and some knowledge of MBTI have always typed me ENTJ.

 

[Sil]

To all ESTJs: Do you consider yourself to be judgmental, and if so, do you sometimes feel guilty about looking down on others?

I don't consider myself to be judgmental. It's not a characeristic expressed frequently enough to be a defining aspect of my personality.

I never feel guilty for judging others.

 

[Lloyd]

What are you used to be oblivious of?

 

[EJCC]

What are you used to be oblivious of?

Who I have accidentally offended, intimidated, or shocked, by saying something I thought was obvious. Usually I only realize that when someone tells me.

 

[SeedofDavid]

Wow!

I can't believe you've kept this going. That's amazing! :birthday::birthday: