[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Ursa]

How do i treat or behave with this ESTJ?? (ESFP
Asking)

We met each other in a jiu jitsu class and things went a lil far (sexually) after telling how we felt for each other so I asked not tell anyone about us to avoid any trouble in his job.

I started to developed feelings for him and asked him "what are we". He never gave me a straight answer. I was confused so I told two friends we have in common and who knew what was going between us for advice: His boss, who's a friend of mine and a guy from our class who's a mutual friend. He learned that i told others about us and he called and told me he couldn't trust me anymore, that he was hurt, disappointed and could not believe what i did ....and that it was over. One month later, I went to apologize and he agreed on giving me one chance to regain his trust and try to be friends. He also told me to change some aspects of my behavior and be carefull of whom i trust. Like being more humble, less bitchy, keeping things to myself, not trust anyone.

After that, he started acting completely awkward, sometimes he was nice with me and sometimes he's rough and cold.
So i decided to pull back and change the aspects he told me to and got way better at jiu jitsu.
After that he started treating me very respectful and kind. He didn't mind at all spending time explaining any technique I had problem with. He talked to me more often, etc.

But Again, the situation got way out of hand when the owner (his bosses boss) of all the jiu jitsu academies in the area found out. His best friend (my other teacher) called me and told me if i knew how bad i looked as a woman telling everyone about what I did with the other teacher.

I was beyond upset.

So i went directly to talk to the guy and we cleared everything.
Compared to other situations I've had with him, for my surprise he started treating me with even more respect and kindness.

True is, I still like him and I don't know what to do with all this....

Im a ESFP

Your best bet is to move on from this person. Possibly move on from the school and start elsewhere anew if there is too much drama or if it presents a challenge to your moving on romantically.

It is never a good idea to stick around with someone who cannot give you a straight answer about your relationship status, and who runs hot and cold. Rest assured people like that want to keep you on reserve and don't actually care about your welfare or your relationship. It is also never a good idea to become involved with a person when your involvement could cause them trouble at work. It sounds like you have experienced some drama at your school on account of your involvement, which only proves this point, and I think it will only get worse over time, especially based on the responses you have received from management. Students should attend to learn and nothing else. Don't mix personal with professional. Thirdly, it is a bad idea to hang out with people who say to be careful of whom you trust (in this context). This is an extremely negative and harmful mindset that will impact your ability to interact with others in a meaningful way in the future. For your sake, discontinue this involvement.

Run, don't walk, away from this person.

Why do you even want to stay at a dysfunctional place like this? Management's sexist comment about "how bad you looked as a woman" should be a turn-off. It's not about your sex. It's about two people who made a mistake, and management should be acknowledging the other person's role in it too, more so than yours if he is an instructor or your senior.

 

[Ursa]

This thread is so desolate now...

Just kidding, haha.

 

[Sil]

Have you ever broken a serious rule? How did you feel after/during/before if you ever have?

Yes. There's that moment of concern afterwards contemplating the consequences...followed by an "ah, fuck it."

During the breaking...was just focused on getting whatever it was I wanted out of it. Can't say there was a particular feeling...just focus.

Did you used to 'police' your peers more than 'play' with them? How do you view rebels/rule-breakers- ect?

Didn't police anyone. Did bully some and fight others though. Bullying stopped in middle school. Fighting continued on through to high school.

Kid rebels are a mix of hilarious and annoying. Adult rebels are rampant narcissists.

Would you ever go for the 'bad boy' stereotype or do you view is as ridiculous and a in and out bad idea-aka as in who would want to actually get in a relationship with someone genuine ill intentions. Suppose maybe depends on the degree and yeah- determining those out and out intentions. Anyways. Better stop now otherwise Ill just answer ALL of them for you- even though it is possible I am an ESTJ. Do you believe I could be an ESTJ?

No. I had no interest. Didn't view it as ridiculous or otherwise. Just didn't care or pay attention to that sort of detail.

 

[Sil]

Could I also ask what it is that interests you about this website if you typically don't think it helps you in real life in any way?

This one? Not much. Sometimes it has fun questions to answer.

 

[chubber]

ISTP 7w8

 

[Sil]

ISTP 7w8

Sounds like fun.

 

[Sil]

ISTP 7w8

Probably not.

 

[EJCC]

Questions for those of you who have been in relationships with ESTJs:

- How do you deal with how distant and uncommunicative they are?
- Did they get better at that over time? If so, was it something you did? What did you do? (And nice work!)
- Did you find it relatively simple to have a mature, grown-up relationship with someone of a type that tends to be so emotionally stunted and/or closed-off?

I wouldn't mind hearing answers from friends of ESTJs as well, but I'm especially curious about partners because romantic relationships require sooo much more closeness than friendships typically do.

 

[Seymour]

Questions for those of you who have been in relationships with ESTJs:

- How do you deal with how distant and uncommunicative they are?
- Did they get better at that over time? If so, was it something you did? What did you do? (And nice work!)
- Did you find it relatively simple to have a mature, grown-up relationship with someone of a type that tends to be so emotionally stunted and/or closed-off?

I wouldn't mind hearing answers from friends of ESTJs as well, but I'm especially curious about partners because romantic relationships require sooo much more closeness than friendships typically do.

So I have an ISTJ partner (of 23 years), and an ESTJ dad. So I'm not sure I can exactly address your question, but I can give it a shot based on my ISTJ partner, and my experiences with my ESTJ dad.

For me, there was definitely a long learning process learning to relate to my partner. I think my partner isn't particularly emotionally/socially aware (even for an STJ). Sometimes that left me feeling somewhat lonely, especially when I wanted someone to be equally emotionally aware and in tune with me. I think I eventually figured out that expecting my partner to be finely attuned emotionally was unfair (or at least frustrating for both of us). He often doesn't know his own emotional state, and expecting him to pick up on mine isn't a recipe for happiness. Early on I felt like that was a deficit on my part (that somehow I wasn't doing enough or trying hard enough), but in recent years I've learned to accept that it isn't matter of fault, and better accept the positive he offers. Conversely, he has gotten somewhat better at reading his own emotional state, which improves things for both of us.

Similarly. I went through a similar process with my dad (who is more constrained that my partner in many ways). Once I could ease up on expected him to be equally attuned and accept the positives he offered, things became much easier for both of us. At this point, I can appreciate the stability and commitment to family he offers, especially after my coming out to him (which was a huge challenge to his belief system).

I believe that emotional awareness isn't inherently type constrained (even if it might be type correlated). But it pays to accept people's level of emotional awareness/attunement where it is. People can learn to be more emotionally attuned, but sometimes there might be limiting factors.

 

[EJCC]

Thanks [MENTION=8074]Seymour[/MENTION]!

I think you're right about emotional awareness not necessarily being related to type. What I was attempting to refer to in my earlier post was less emotional awareness and more emotional openness. I don't know about other ESTJs but when I'm feeling particularly emotional, I shut down, and getting me to even acknowledge the existence of my feelings and needs (let alone try to articulate them) is like pulling teeth.

 

[Seymour]

Thanks [MENTION=8074]Seymour[/MENTION]!

I think you're right about emotional awareness not necessarily being related to type. What I was attempting to refer to in my earlier post was less emotional awareness and more emotional openness. I don't know about other ESTJs but when I'm feeling particularly emotional, I shut down, and getting me to even acknowledge the existence of my feelings and needs (let alone try to articulate them) is like pulling teeth.

In that case, it sounds less like lack of emotional awareness, and more about psychological defenses. I think for every type (both MBTI and enneagram) being emotionally vulnerable is an huge challenge. Still, fulfillment and meaning comes about largely through vulnerability (dammit!). So learning to be vulnerable (and learning to be patient with others as they learn trust and vulnerability in a relationship) can be challenging. I still struggle with knowing when to vulnerable in relationships. I feel like my e5 leanings make me less likely to risk than some INFPs.

(And MBTI-wise, I think FPs tend to risk more and tend to attempt vulnerability as a gambit, while FJs tend to be more in tune what's appropriate for the level of relationship. Laying your emotional cards on the table can be a good gambit sometimes, but at other times it can freak the other person out.)

 

[snowsun]

What do you thinkk about ESTJ female/ ISFJ male relationship?
any good/bad things for ESTJ female/ ISFJ male relationship?
What should ISFJ do for ESTJ?
What should ESTJ do for ISFJ?

 

[EJCC]

What do you thinkk about ESTJ female/ ISFJ male relationship?
any good/bad things for ESTJ female/ ISFJ male relationship?
What should ISFJ do for ESTJ?
What should ESTJ do for ISFJ?

Hm.

1) I tend to be more drawn towards Ns, personally, because I'm more drawn towards my opposites -- also because I'm so much weirder than the ISxJs I know, they tend to not know what to do with me. So I think it could work very well with ESTJs and ISFJs who are better balanced relative to one another on the weirdness scale.
2) Not really. I guess make sure any future children feel supported even if they want to (literally or figuratively) color outside the lines. Two SJs together, in parenting situations or otherwise, can be basically an immovable wall. So try, with each other and with outside parties, to remain flexible.
3) and 4) ISFJ and ESTJ should provide each other with stability in the ways that the other lacks -- with ESTJ providing calm when ISFJ is upset or panicky, and ISFJ being there emotionally for ESTJ when they feel alone/unappreciated in times of stress.

[MENTION=23583]Yamato Nadeshiko[/MENTION] ?

 

[Yama]

Hm.

1) I tend to be more drawn towards Ns, personally, because I'm more drawn towards my opposites -- also because I'm so much weirder than the ISxJs I know, they tend to not know what to do with me. So I think it could work very well with ESTJs and ISFJs who are better balanced relative to one another on the weirdness scale.
2) Not really. I guess make sure any future children feel supported even if they want to (literally or figuratively) color outside the lines. Two SJs together, in parenting situations or otherwise, can be basically an immovable wall. So try, with each other and with outside parties, to remain flexible.
3) and 4) ISFJ and ESTJ should provide each other with stability in the ways that the other lacks -- with ESTJ providing calm when ISFJ is upset or panicky, and ISFJ being there emotionally for ESTJ when they feel alone/unappreciated in times of stress.

[MENTION=23583]Yamato Nadeshiko[/MENTION] ?

Man, I don't know anything about relationships.
I'm a slut for xSTJ types though. But pretty much all the ones I have known outside of a work environment are ISTJs.
I would say that you have good answers though.

 

[Forever]

Man, I don't know anything about relationships.
I'm a slut for xSTJ types though. But pretty much all the ones I have known outside of a work environment are ISTJs.
I would say that you have good answers though.

What is it about ISTJ's that make you want to moanshout across the rooftops about?

 

[Yama]

What is it about ISTJ's that make you want to moanshout across the rooftops about?

Si doms have silly/goofy Ne. Our senses of humor click together. We also have similar interests. At the same time, I get along with ISTJs better than other ISFJs because I need their Te to give a new perspective to my Fe.

 

[Forever]

Si doms have silly/goofy Ne. Our senses of humor click together. We also have similar interests. At the same time, I get along with ISTJs better than other ISFJs because I need their Te to give a new perspective to my Fe.

This is very interesting. I am hoping as I get back to California, I can appreciate more of how Te can bring practical function in my life. Although it's hard for me to easily get used to their methods of getting things done. Sometimes Te users make discipline sound so easy and when actually stuff gets done. You're like omg why am I working so much.

I think Te users too on mbti tests can easily pass more judging qualities than any other user. Because to the feeler, you work based on what people feel is the best use of their time and effort. So it's like deadlines and other projects sound pretty Te in nature.

 

[Yama]

This is very interesting. I am hoping as I get back to California, I can appreciate more of how Te can bring practical function in my life. Although it's hard for me to easily get used to their methods of getting things done. Sometimes Te users make discipline sound so easy and when actually stuff gets done. You're like omg why am I working so much.

I think Te users too on mbti tests can easily pass more judging qualities than any other user. Because to the feeler, you work based on what people feel is the best use of their time and effort. So it's like deadlines and other projects sound pretty Te in nature.

I mean, the Te can definitely brush me the wrong way sometimes. It can be blunt and direct in a way that forces me to acknowledge what I already know (but would rather ignore). And I'm sure they can find Fe frustrating ("Why do you care if it hurts their feelings?! If you don't wanna do it then don't, wtf is the problem here?!") but they really also balance each other out. I'm sure there's some reason ISTJs appreciate me/the Fe or they wouldn't keep me around.

 

[Forever]

I mean, the Te can definitely brush me the wrong way sometimes. It can be blunt and direct in a way that forces me to acknowledge what I already know (but would rather ignore). And I'm sure they can find Fe frustrating ("Why do you care if it hurts their feelings?! If you don't wanna do it then don't, wtf is the problem here?!") but they really also balance each other out. I'm sure there's some reason ISTJs appreciate me/the Fe or they wouldn't keep me around.

Sorry if I mentioned California I thought I deleted the entire phrase lol, it was an unnecessary personal sentence that didn't need sharing here lol.

Haha ikr? Te is like why is it important that you care about everyone's feelings and all I can say just because or just that's how it is. But yeah I mean though healthy usage of each function is valuable in of itself to know.

Like my mental library of past sensations is so little. I always have a hard time deciding on food because I have to approximate every food within itself and make a decision process rather than relying on perception. So usually I can stick to the same foods because it's been working, doesn't mean I can't appreciate new things but once I have something bad that's new to me. It's really hard to want to explore again. Inferior Se welcomes the new perception but doesn't make a mental note of it.

It sucks that I can't tell them, my Si is low can you make an argument of about a delicious food item I can try that will be guaranteed good for our taste buds lol. Because our reaction to taste is extremely subjective.

 

[Piraten]

Hi!

I have known this guy since childhood, we are 28 now. I do suspect he is an ESTJ, and I have considered him as a close friend. And I still do it I think, but its on the verge at the moment.

How do you confront an ESTJ with a questions that, boiled down, is: Are we still close?

I might have said something or did something during a psychosis, but he hasnt mentioned anything and I said I'm sorry. But nowadays he doesnt include me in stuff. When I call him we have a great chat until he needs to hurry away, and says he will call me later the same day. He didn't do that so I called him a day after, he didn't answer and didn't call back.

Now I thinking about to write him a message, something like:

I consider you as a dear friend, and now I wonder if its anything Ive done to you, i maybe should be sorry about?
Because you seem to want to take steps away from me.

How would you guys react to a straightup forward question like this. Im resistent to this because of group harmony.


And a sidequestion;
I had issues with drugs, now im been imprisonated for 8 months, drugfree. I've been accepted into a school (real though school to be accepted into), and completley turned around my life. So I just bailed, and told this to this friend and he didnt even congratulate me. Why so?

Are you ESTJs hard to change opinion about someone when you already manifested your view?