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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1211
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Indeed. Either you feel at ease and trust everything will be okay - and then you are "able to act nonsensically without being drunk" as someone once told my hubby (he took it as a great compliment ). Or something tipped over the scales to the socially stressed out mode.
    My husband also wishes to have an exhaustive and finite list of things to say or do in various social situations together with for each action a single, predictable outcome. Aren't you all wishing you could rely on your Si instead of that Fe for social situations?
    (I wonder whether ENTPs have a "failing FiSe" mode - I don't think so. My most negative mode also involves Ni.)
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
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  2. #1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    So I guess, in short, a lot of ESTJs do act this way, but at different points in their lives.

    p.s. I'd love to hear feedback on this answer from other people who know ESTJs, because I'm interested in whether it rings true.
    My experience is similar. My ESTJ friend recently told me to shut-up during logical conversation. He wasn't kidding around. So, after controlling nerd boy told me to shut-up, I wasn't kidding around either.


    BTW, I was merely repeating his words back to him (from a week ago), which actually supported my point, but apparently not his (in the moment). I was being sweet.

  3. #1213
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Indeed. Either you feel at ease and trust everything will be okay - and then you are "able to act nonsensically without being drunk" as someone once told my hubby (he took it as a great compliment ). Or something tipped over the scales to the socially stressed out mode.
    I'm the same way. My cheerful Ne mode is pretty much my favorite mode to be in, and it turns me into a complete goofball And yeah, it is similar to being drunk, in the sense that neither a drunk person, nor a cheerful EJCC, is likely to think very much (if at all) before they burst forth into ridiculous one-liners and over-the-top stories! And because that mode is so very Ne and so little Fe, if one of those jokes/stories fails utterly, the Ne mode will be crushed and replaced by the paranoid Fe/Ni mode we were just talking about

    My husband also wishes to have an exhaustive and finite list of things to say or do in various social situations together with for each action a single, predictable outcome. Aren't you all wishing you could rely on your Si instead of that Fe for social situations?
    What a beautiful invention that would be...

    *sigh*

    (I wonder whether ENTPs have a "failing FiSe" mode - I don't think so. My most negative mode also involves Ni.)
    I have no idea what that would look like in a person. There's a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    My experience is similar. My ESTJ friend recently told me to shut-up during logical conversation. He wasn't kidding around.
    God, that's irritating. I am SO not okay with that behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    God, that's irritating. I am SO not okay with that behavior.
    It happened once before and I just thought "boys will be boys". He's a little on the high-strung/aggressive side, which can be entertaining, but I don't know him well enough to know if "shutup" is where it stops or if he'll eventually take it to another level of disrespectful. I'm guessing so. It's a shame because he's interesting/fun, but I can't handle the sudden angry outbursts during a mature conversation.

  5. #1215
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perfectgirl View Post
    It happened once before and I just thought "boys will be boys". He's a little on the high-strung/aggressive side, which can be entertaining, but I don't know him well enough to know if "shutup" is where it stops or if he'll eventually take it to another level of disrespectful. I'm guessing so. It's a shame because he's interesting/fun, but I can't handle the sudden angry outbursts during a mature conversation.
    That frustrates me too. I think Ti types are a lot more fun to have discussions with, because of that. Fi types can be annoyingly reactive, just like you described, getting emotionally involved in discussions that they really shouldn't get involved in.

    (I'm included in that group, sometimes. There was one time when I was having an intense debate with my IxTP friend, and she was provoking me without realizing how much it riled up my Fi, and I swear to God if I hadn't restrained myself, the whole situation would've ended with me going "Well F*CK YOU" and storming off. This is why I will never work in PR!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #1216
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    I had a sort of breakthrough with my ESTJ friend. The last time I talked with him, he got on my case for not carrying out a decision I've made. I spoke with him again and explained my thought process as carefully as I could. I said that there was action but unseen because it was mostly in the form of thinking. That it was my nature to put a huge amount of energy into thought so that I could create 'the elegant solution'. I let him know that if I acted right now that I'd create more chaos in the long run even if it did help my situation in the short-term. I also told him it was almost time to apply my elegant solution. He seemed to be very understanding and very pleased.


    I know you'd probably have to know specific details but can you speculate on why this time my plan seemed to make sense and he was pleased instead of expressing exasperation that I wasn't doing something? Is it because I explained how I work things? I was surprised because I was waiting for the "You need to do...." speech and it didn't happen.

    BTW, I've seen the silly Ne stuff from him, too. I love it! Doing the 70s bump in a store to cheer me up "When was the last time you danced like this?"--it worked because it was so very silly.

  7. #1217
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I had a sort of breakthrough with my ESTJ friend. The last time I talked with him, he got on my case for not carrying out a decision I've made. I spoke with him again and explained my thought process as carefully as I could. I said that there was action but unseen because it was mostly in the form of thinking. That it was my nature to put a huge amount of energy into thought so that I could create 'the elegant solution'. I let him know that if I acted right now that I'd create more chaos in the long run even if it did help my situation in the short-term. I also told him it was almost time to apply my elegant solution. He seemed to be very understanding and very pleased.

    I know you'd probably have to know specific details but can you speculate on why this time my plan seemed to make sense and he was pleased instead of expressing exasperation that I wasn't doing something? Is it because I explained how I work things? I was surprised because I was waiting for the "You need to do...." speech and it didn't happen.
    That's exactly what it was. You got no Te complaints because you made it very clear that yours is the most PRACTICAL way for you personally, and that you had everything completely under control. You were set to go, on task, etc. No problems to fix, no inefficiencies. How can an ESTJ argue with that?

    On the other hand, if you hadn't explained your method well, or had just said "I AM dealing with it", then you'd get the arguing. "It doesn't LOOK like you're doing anything, so why don't you just go out and do what I said for you to do??" The only way to get an ESTJ off your back, in those situations, is to make sure they understand what you're doing. And if they totally get it, and still won't leave you alone... well you'd better find some facts and figures to convince them, or else you're screwed
    BTW, I've seen the silly Ne stuff from him, too. I love it! Doing the 70s bump in a store to cheer me up "When was the last time you danced like this?"--it worked because it was so very silly.
    I love doing that sort of thing even though if I'm too silly I just get this from people: which makes me
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #1218
    Let's make this showy! Array raz's Avatar
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    I just can't believe you're still answering these questions. lol


  9. #1219
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I just can't believe you're still answering these questions. lol
    What can I say? I have a niche. Honestly, my forum life isn't nearly as fun/interesting/rewarding without this thread. I like being helpful, and this is the best way to be helpful here. It's the only way I really feel like I've contributed, so I'm sticking to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1220
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm the same way. My cheerful Ne mode is pretty much my favorite mode to be in,
    ... if there's no work to be done, I guess?
    and it turns me into a complete goofball And yeah, it is similar to being drunk, in the sense that neither a drunk person, nor a cheerful EJCC, is likely to think very much (if at all) before they burst forth into ridiculous one-liners and over-the-top stories! And because that mode is so very Ne and so little Fe, if one of those jokes/stories fails utterly, the Ne mode will be crushed and replaced by the paranoid Fe/Ni mode we were just talking about
    I think the story I described had another trigger. Annoyed at how disorganized everything was (and probably itching to get into bossy Te mode) and gradually realising more and more he doesn't want to be there. He hates the sort of "it's the friends and the atmosphere that counts, don't mention those trifling things like hunger and being tired and the desire to get home around midnight as if you aren't amusing yourself" vibe that hangs around with such parties. Well, I hate that too!
    But I figured out some time ago that if I wasn't amusing myself, I had full right to get away. Okay, it's not very polite. BUT. With "lying to be polite" you can get into very absurd situations like this:
    aunt gives you special coffee as a present
    you hate coffee but gush about it because you that's how you react when you get a present
    aunt thinks you love coffee and goes out of her way to get you more next time
    you still hate coffee but gush even more because she has done such a great effort for you...

    Why, why, why??? Why do some people assume that, if you put a registry on your wedding invitation, you're only caring about gifts? While the truth is that you just want to make thegift-giving easy for the guests? Why are there such complex rules which makes communication totally inefficient? Even my husband almost didn't dare to ask what I wanted at some gift-giving occasion, for fear I would interpret it as "you don't know me enough, you don't love me"!

    After that party, I was inspired to organize a much better one (a bad experience always leaves me wanting to do it better). Husband didn't want to hear about my plans. He said "well okay, you'll make a party which is to our taste and maybe the other guests wouldn't like it and wouldn't say it just like here! I don't want to give our guests a bad time so NO PARTIES."

    What a beautiful invention that would be...
    Impossible. Once you figure it out, the whole social thing will incorporate those rules and interpret even one step further. Like: Okay, now EJCC has used rule #33 to get me react like that - what does she REALLY want with that? I fear a social rule-book will make it more complicated and I actually want to get it LESS complicated. If husband wants me to tidy the room while he's at work, I would prefer him to tell me "I'd like you to tidy the room while I'm at work" without fear that I would interpret it as anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    What can I say? I have a niche. Honestly, my forum life isn't nearly as fun/interesting/rewarding without this thread. I like being helpful, and this is the best way to be helpful here. It's the only way I really feel like I've contributed, so I'm sticking to it.
    I'm jealous! I like to answer questions too! But the "ask an ENTP" has slid into oblivion. I gave up some time ago.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

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