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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm so glad we have multiple ESTJs on this forum!
Me too :)

Out of curiosity [MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] do you relate to my posts? We seem very different from each other re: humor, and you seem almost introverted in the way you communicate on the forum*. The only reason why I'm sure you're an ESTJ, despite all that, is because of the way you've been systematically reviving every good ESTJ thread on the forum. :laugh: Which is the most ESTJ thing you could possibly do. "I'm here, and I can contribute, so I WILL, damn it."


*I'm sure your being sp/so has something to do with it. Whereas in contrast I'm the stereotypical sunshiney and friendly so/sx. While you've mentioned that you don't care much for Enneagram, and you do seem pretty balanced re: Enneatype, you vibe like you have a very different tritype from me. 9 or 1 gut fix, definite 3 heart fix, 5 or 6 head fix.
 

Sil

This is a test.
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
362
Me too :)

Out of curiosity [MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] do you relate to my posts? We seem very different from each other re: humor, and you seem almost introverted in the way you communicate on the forum*. The only reason why I'm sure you're an ESTJ, despite all that, is because of the way you've been systematically reviving every good ESTJ thread on the forum. :laugh: Which is the most ESTJ thing you could possibly do. "I'm here, and I can contribute, so I WILL, damn it."


*I'm sure your being sp/so has something to do with it. Whereas in contrast I'm the stereotypical sunshiney and friendly so/sx. While you've mentioned that you don't care much for Enneagram, and you do seem pretty balanced re: Enneatype, you vibe like you have a very different tritype from me. 9 or 1 gut fix, definite 3 heart fix, 5 or 6 head fix.

Hmm, I don't really remember. Off my gut, I'd say I relate to maybe 40% of what you write. You tend to write more factually or about the ESTJ type as a general, though, so there's not a whole lot of opinion lying around to soak in and internalize. Also, like most ESTJs, you don't exactly elaborate on your points ad nauseum. Your posts are pretty succinct.

The points we've agreed on most are our Fi being heavily involved in our political/moral beliefs and gaining energy from interacting with the world around us (giterdone).

Points we've disagreed on most is how we relate to Fi. You try to use it as a tool to live honestly; I use it to self indulge in cheap rushes.

On the whole, you come off a lot more conscientious and thoughtful of others than I am.

As to humor...I haven't seen your brand of humor on here. How is it different from mine? And I have no idea what introverted communication looks like. Mind being more specific about what makes for introverted/extroverted communication styles? I'm interested to know what types of patterns/tells you see to decide that.

And yeah...none of you people make new threads. So I have to zombify old ones. Man, some of them are OLD. It's like the mods put a ban on making new threads post 2010.

Also, I'm actually very sunshiney. Sort of. Maybe. Okay, I'm not really sure. Are we talking cheerleader sunny or Patton-facing-down-Rommel sunny?



Regarding the enneagram: I'm interested why you think nine or one for core while being dead certain on three heart fix.

Actually, I was typed 173 for about a year and a half. Never been anything but an sp though. My sx is practically non-existent. Sx-doms tend to be like flare guns in the face. Too much going on with them.




On an aside, I do find it interesting that despite both being female ESTJs we're pretty markedly different. I would have expected more resonance.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Dunno. I ditched the enneagram two years ago and haven't given it much thought since. I was everything except 4, 2, and 9. And maybe 7. I don't dig LSD and glow sticks enough to be a 7. Also, the government doesn't hire 7s. Mostly 1s. Lots of 1s. And 8s, but they're kept sedated in between gigs, so we don't talk much.

I'm an sp-dom though. Sp/so.

So that leaves 1, 3, 5, 6 and 8.

So a 3w2 is not you?
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
You have me confused for someone else.

So you weren't that person who threw the milkshake in my face when I was up on stage?
 

Sil

This is a test.
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
362
[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

Still want to hear about the introverted/extroverted communication styles. If you would be so kind.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Hmm, I don't really remember. Off my gut, I'd say I relate to maybe 40% of what you write. You tend to write more factually or about the ESTJ type as a general, though, so there's not a whole lot of opinion lying around to soak in and internalize. Also, like most ESTJs, you don't exactly elaborate on your points ad nauseum. Your posts are pretty succinct.

The points we've agreed on most are our Fi being heavily involved in our political/moral beliefs and gaining energy from interacting with the world around us (giterdone).
Seems fair.

Points we've disagreed on most is how we relate to Fi. You try to use it as a tool to live honestly; I use it to self indulge in cheap rushes.
What kind of cheap rush do you mean? Like, self-pitying masochism? Or like the satisfaction of knowing that YOURS is the RIGHT way? Or something different?

On the whole, you come off a lot more conscientious and thoughtful of others than I am.
I think I consider others a lot more than most ESTJs, yeah. But I would have thought being conscientious would be a given for our type. Why don't you think you're as conscientious?

As to humor...I haven't seen your brand of humor on here. How is it different from mine?
Mine is kind of silly and punny and dark. Also lots of Ne. Yours, at least from this thread, seems a lot more dry than mine. And abstract, in a non-Ne way.
And I have no idea what introverted communication looks like. Mind being more specific about what makes for introverted/extroverted communication styles? I'm interested to know what types of patterns/tells you see to decide that.
I think when people make their point in a very brief and concise way, with no exclamation marks or other text-based indicators, that vibes as a type of introversion, to me. Because it comes across as so incredibly subdued.

Regarding the enneagram: I'm interested why you think nine or one for core while being dead certain on three heart fix.
Someone on the forum said, a while ago, that they could tell if someone was a 3 based on an absence of a noticeable heart fix. That's why I'm certain, in your case.

Nine or One because I haven't noticed 8-style passion from you. You're too subdued. At least, you are on the forum.

Actually, I was typed 173 for about a year and a half. Never been anything but an sp though. My sx is practically non-existent. Sx-doms tend to be like flare guns in the face. Too much going on with them.
Yeah you don't seem 7 at all to me. The more of your posts I read, the more I go with 5w6 or 6w5.

I like Sx-doms when they know how to establish boundaries. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

On an aside, I do find it interesting that despite both being female ESTJs we're pretty markedly different. I would have expected more resonance.
Yeah, same. I think you may use significantly less Ne than your average ESTJ? Or your average forumgoing ESTJ?
 

Sil

This is a test.
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
362
Seems fair.

What kind of cheap rush do you mean? Like, self-pitying masochism? Or like the satisfaction of knowing that YOURS is the RIGHT way? Or something different?

Entirely different. Think of it as an adrenaline rush gained through emotional indulgence. I find that I really connect with the present moment when I just let myself experience the full force of my emotions. I don't mean acting out on them; I just mean letting them take storm internally and reveling in the sheer FEELING of emotions.

So when I am bored or feeling stagnated, I dredge up strong emotional points for myself and sort of drown myself in them mentally. I live out the emotions in my head and get wrapped up in experiencing them as a sort of physical sensation.

Think of it like slipping into a hot bath that is so hot it's almost unbearable. But instead of getting out you continue to lie there are enjoy being on the edge of discomfort. Because the line between comfort and discomfort is so close you don't have the ability to think about anything other than the sensation itself. Your mind is entirely focused on a single, solitary experience.

That is what I enjoy about emotions.

Not sure if that gives you a better picture.

I think I consider others a lot more than most ESTJs, yeah. But I would have thought being conscientious would be a given for our type. Why don't you think you're as conscientious?

It comes after the fact.

Conscientiousness is about wishing to do what is right. Based on self-examination, I wish to do what I want first, then think about whether or not it is right afterwards.

It's not an exact science. There are definitely areas where I strongly care about doing what is right (especially in terms of personal work).

I think if there is no personal challenge/goal at odds with the moral side, I'll pick morality. But if there is some challenge, some thrill of obstacles to overcome, then I will normally default to the challenge before the moral aspect.

I guess suffice to say is I am more interested in what I can do before I am interested in whether or not what I do is right.

Mine is kind of silly and punny and dark. Also lots of Ne. Yours, at least from this thread, seems a lot more dry than mine. And abstract, in a non-Ne way.

Interesting. This is surprising, as I consider my humor very Ne. Could you elaborate a little and give an example of your humor? Perhaps name the kind of comedic films you enjoy, if any.

I think when people make their point in a very brief and concise way, with no exclamation marks or other text-based indicators, that vibes as a type of introversion, to me. Because it comes across as so incredibly subdued.

I see. But I think ESTJs tend to be concise speakers anyways (you certainly are). But maybe that ties into your comment about being more ambiverted?

Someone on the forum said, a while ago, that they could tell if someone was a 3 based on an absence of a noticeable heart fix. That's why I'm certain, in your case.

Nine or One because I haven't noticed 8-style passion from you. You're too subdued. At least, you are on the forum.

Yeah you don't seem 7 at all to me. The more of your posts I read, the more I go with 5w6 or 6w5.

That makes sense. I agree with your assessment that I wouldn't qualify as an eight or seven. I'm not quite as subdued in real life as I am on forums, but I don't fit the motivations of either of those types.

I don't know what an "absence of a noticeable heart fix" looks like, but I would agree based on what I remember about the enneagram about being a 3 heart fix.

I like Sx-doms when they know how to establish boundaries. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Excellent point. Sx-doms who don't have boundaries are problematic. Sx-doms who learn how much energy to give and withhold are more manageable.

Yeah, same. I think you may use significantly less Ne than your average ESTJ? Or your average forumgoing ESTJ?

This is such a strange thing. I consider myself a VERY heavy Ne user for an ESTJ. To the point that I've been weighing ENFP as a type. It's very unexpected that you would say it appears I use it less than an average ESTJ (forumgoing or otherwise).

I wonder if maybe I've been confusing another cog function for Ne.
 

Sil

This is a test.
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
362
[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

To also note, you are the first ESTJ with significant MBTI experience that I've spoken to in perhaps 3-4 years. So it's a nice change of pace for me to get your perspective and thoughts.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] I'm wondering if you're actually an ENTJ. Or at least if there's something significant other than instinctual stacking that separates us. Maybe ENFP is possible and you actually ARE more Ne than me.

That emotion thing you described is something I don't relate to at all. :huh: I experience that discomfort thing but I don't find it enjoyable as much as I (sometimes) find it useful and important and interesting. So the enjoyment is intellectual. Not to mention I rarely feel like I'm in the present moment when I'm in the midst of emotions. I wonder if that's what inferior Fi feels like to ENTJs?

And what you described about morality is almost enough to make me rule out 1 entirely as a trifix. (What do you think, [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]?) Maybe 8w9 or 9w8?

Out of curiosity, what makes you relate more to Si and Ni?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Oh, also: I'm not remembering good examples of my own jokes now, but here are some of my favorite sources of comedy, in no particular order:

- "Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World"
- WTF with Marc Maron
- "Big Trouble in Little China"
- "BoJack Horseman"
- XKCD

And favorite comedians:
- Mitch Hedberg
- Steve Martin
- Marc Maron
- Nick Offerman
- John Mulaney
- Louis CK

Comedians/sources of comedy I DON'T like:
- Carlos Mencia
- Adam Sandler
- "The Hangover"
- Gross-out, shock value humor (e.g. Sarah Silverman, 2/3 of all episodes of South Park)
- Awkward humor (e.g. most of "The Office" and all of "Louie" even though I love Louis CK)
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I swear I didn't lock this thread intentionally. God damn it, why is this glitch happening.
 

Sil

This is a test.
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
362
[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] I'm wondering if you're actually an ENTJ. Or at least if there's something significant other than instinctual stacking that separates us. Maybe ENFP is possible and you actually ARE more Ne than me.

It sounds like you're picking up on a fairly significant amount of discordance between us that might not be entirely accounted for by instinctual stacking.

Re: ENFP. It's possible I use a significantly larger amount of Ne than you. The only hitch with ENFP for me is that 1) I've never related to posts by ENFPs and 2) inferior Fi is pretty accurate for me.

I ended up being an ESTJ primarily based on my inferior function.

That emotion thing you described is something I don't relate to at all. :huh: I experience that discomfort thing but I don't find it enjoyable as much as I (sometimes) find it useful and important and interesting. So the enjoyment is intellectual. Not to mention I rarely feel like I'm in the present moment when I'm in the midst of emotions. I wonder if that's what inferior Fi feels like to ENTJs?

Oh, that's unexpected. I'm quite surprised you don't relate to it at all. Especially about emotions pulling you into the present. Where do emotions take you on a past-present-future scale? Or do they not extend to that at all?

Do you generally perceive your emotions more in terms of usefulness (both practically and in terms of moral guidance)? Do you ever play around with your own emotions to just explore them as things?

What kind of state do strong emotions bring you to?

And what you described about morality is almost enough to make me rule out 1 entirely as a trifix. (What do you think, [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]?) Maybe 8w9 or 9w8?

Out of curiosity, what makes you relate more to Si and Ni?

Huh. I wasn't aware anything I said was distinctly non-one. But it's been awhile since I delved into the enneagram, so my knowledge isn't what it used to be.

Do you also rule out 5w6 and 6w5 now?

Regarding Si and Ni, here are some descriptions:

Introverted sensation is subjectively filtered. Perception is not based directly on the object, but is merely suggested by it. Instead, layers of subjective impressions are superimposed upon the image so that it becomes impossible to determine what will be perceived from a knowledge only of the object. Perception thus depends crucially upon internal psychological processes that will differ from one person to the next. At its most positive, introverted sensation is found in the creative artist. At its most extreme, it produces psychotic hallucinations and a total alienation from reality.

Relate to this quite a lot. I consider Si an impressionistic recall of experiences. The recall is more about the sensation that occurred during that experience than the factual aspects of the experience itself.

I use Si to engage in what I would call "sensation matching." Say I am standing at a street corner and am suddenly struck by a sensation. I can quickly take that sensation and run it through my internal database of past experiences to find matching sensations from previous experiences. I can identify not only what triggered the sensation in the present, but identify past moments that are sensationally congruent with the sensation I am currently experiencing.

Sensation primarily refers to a set of feelings/ideas/thoughts that are subjectively connected with a point in time. Or multiple points in time. They may or may not be at all related to what was actually happening at that point in time.

Si for me is largely involuntary.

Introverted intuition is directed inward to the contents of the unconscious. It attempts to fathom internal events by relating them to universal psychological processes or to other archetypal images. Consequently it generally has a mythical, symbolic or prophetic quality.

I don't relate to this at all. I have no idea what it means to refer to archetypal images.



If these are bad descriptions of both Si and Ni, let me know. It is possible I've pulled weaker examples to base my explanations off of.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
No. I was the one who cut the power to the mic.

Ears were in danger.

I thank you.



So your previous career you weren't into being a sales representative?
 

Sil

This is a test.
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
362
Oh, also: I'm not remembering good examples of my own jokes now, but here are some of my favorite sources of comedy, in no particular order:

- "Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World"
- WTF with Marc Maron
- "Big Trouble in Little China"
- "BoJack Horseman"
- XKCD

And favorite comedians:
- Mitch Hedberg
- Steve Martin
- Marc Maron
- Nick Offerman
- John Mulaney
- Louis CK

Comedians/sources of comedy I DON'T like:
- Carlos Mencia
- Adam Sandler
- "The Hangover"
- Gross-out, shock value humor (e.g. Sarah Silverman, 2/3 of all episodes of South Park)
- Awkward humor (e.g. most of "The Office" and all of "Louie" even though I love Louis CK)

Ah, okay. Yes, we definitely have different tastes. Big Trouble in Little China (1986) was a momentous struggle for me to get through. The rest of your film choices I have never watched because they never appealed to me.

Had to look up the comedians, as I don't usually watch stand up comedy. Carlos Mencia was fine. Adam Sandler, Mitch Hedeberg, and Louis CK were all rather bland for me.

Of stand up comedy, Dylan Moran is a solid favorite. I also enjoy Dane Cook from time to time as well as Jeff Dunham.

I am with you on awkward humor, though. The Office is not a show I enjoy.

Of movies I like:

Galaxy Quest (1999)
Kelly's Heroes (1970)
Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975)
Tremors (1999)
The Good the Bad and the Weird [Korean] (2010)
Castaway on the Moon [Korean] (2009)

TV Shows:

Psych (2006-2014)
Chuck (2007-2012)


Seinfeld is also a solid choice.

On reflection, I think I like shows that parody particular genres.
 
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