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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1191
    not to be trusted Array miss fortune's Avatar
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    why is it often so hard to get positive feedback from ESTJs?

    or is it just the ones that I know who seem more likely to point out what you did wrong than what you did right?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #1192
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    why is it often so hard to get positive feedback from ESTJs?

    or is it just the ones that I know who seem more likely to point out what you did wrong than what you did right?
    It's simple (and totally dumb on our part): We take the things that go right for granted.

    I guess we're more instinctively on the lookout for things to fix? So we're more calm and chill when everything's going right. Right = normal = not something to comment on. I guess it doesn't usually cross our minds to go "Hey, you're making everything stay normal! Nice work", even though, if we were in their shoes, we'd want some recognition too. It's a double standard.
    Repeated for emphasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1193
    Finis Array Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I guess it doesn't usually cross our minds to go "Hey, you're making everything stay normal! Nice work",

  4. #1194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I hope I didn't come across as rude If I did, I didn't mean to
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #1195
    Finis Array Redbone's Avatar
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    ^Not at all!

    I thought it was funny!

    Probably because I tend to think the same way...*weak laugh*

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    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Oh, an additional thought on the subject: Again, I dunno about other ESTJs, but if someone does something that I'm REALLY impressed with (i.e. if someone does a particularly/surprisingly good job with something, that I really appreciated/enjoyed/whatever), I WILL comment on it. It's not like all good deeds go unnoticed by me. I can occasionally spot things...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1197
    Senior Member Array IndyGhost's Avatar
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    i only know of one definite ESTJ. she's one of my best friends. however, there are a few traits of hers that make me tick.

    first, she has a habit of making decisions for me. for example, at a bar the other night, there was only one bartender working both the bar and the kitchen. (it was a really slow night.) i was hungry and asked what was on the late night menu. most of it's simple fried stuff late at night that can simply be tossed in the fryer real quick and doesn't occupy the bartenders time much. but, my ESTJ friend stepped in and ordered the cheese dip with chips for me, saying that i needed to order the simplest thing on the menu. she does stuff like this all the time and it bugs me, but not enough for me to really say anything.

    another thing, she has a general habit of giving me orders. i'm fairly easy going and so it's never anything that's a big enough deal to make a fuss. it's usually things like... "i'm going to the bathroom, so will you put the groceries in the fridge." or... "will you grab me a coke." it'd be one thing if i were on my way to the kitchen... but sometimes i'm not... on a funnier note, though... whenever i was with my exboyfriend of about 4 years whom i also lived with, sometimes i'd do this to him. but... she'd chime in and tell me not to order him around and that i can get off my own ass to do it. just kinda funny how her mind works sometimes.

    my ESTJ friend is a heavy drinker and loves to socialize. sometimes she's incredibly forceful in getting me to go out with her. i'll tell her i'm just not in the mood, but she'll reply back, "yes you are." i tell her again... "no... i'm not in the mood... i'd much rather read (or whatever)." and she'll retort, "lame. you owe me. we're going." i'm often baffled.

    are these qualities much like other ESTJ's? i'm only really familiar with this one and don't know if my mind is biased to think most ESTJ's this way, which is why i've yet to pick out other ESTJ's.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  8. #1198
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    why is it often so hard to get positive feedback from ESTJs?
    or is it just the ones that I know who seem more likely to point out what you did wrong than what you did right?
    I don't think it's only ESTJs who do this, actually. There are lots of people whose work is taken for granted except if there's something wrong. I'm thinking of maintenance and cleaning people, secretaries etc... But I guess ESTJs are indeed quite bad at it. Like EJCC said, if everything is right, no comments are needed. Comments are intended to improve things. If it's good, why waste extra effort on it if, with the same effort, you can improve things (and people)? This is a pure Te reasoning here; looking at results rather than effects like "people will be put off if I only comment on bad things".

    I'm now thinking about another reason, too. These ESTJs are good at "getting things right" so to them, it's easy and not much of a merit. My husband has complimented me more than once on something I would take for granted - those creative Ne solutions of mine. And he fails to compliment me on what I perceive as a huge effort and compliment-worthy - such as getting the boring housework done.

    On the other hand, if an ESTJ gives you a compliment, you know for sure you've impressed him. He isn't doing this to make you feel better or something That's why I love ESTJ feedback on my writing.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
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  9. #1199
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    i only know of one definite ESTJ. she's one of my best friends. however, there are a few traits of hers that make me tick.

    first, she has a habit of making decisions for me. for example, at a bar the other night, there was only one bartender working both the bar and the kitchen. (it was a really slow night.) i was hungry and asked what was on the late night menu. most of it's simple fried stuff late at night that can simply be tossed in the fryer real quick and doesn't occupy the bartenders time much. but, my ESTJ friend stepped in and ordered the cheese dip with chips for me, saying that i needed to order the simplest thing on the menu. she does stuff like this all the time and it bugs me, but not enough for me to really say anything.

    another thing, she has a general habit of giving me orders. i'm fairly easy going and so it's never anything that's a big enough deal to make a fuss. it's usually things like... "i'm going to the bathroom, so will you put the groceries in the fridge." or... "will you grab me a coke." it'd be one thing if i were on my way to the kitchen... but sometimes i'm not... on a funnier note, though... whenever i was with my exboyfriend of about 4 years whom i also lived with, sometimes i'd do this to him. but... she'd chime in and tell me not to order him around and that i can get off my own ass to do it. just kinda funny how her mind works sometimes.

    my ESTJ friend is a heavy drinker and loves to socialize. sometimes she's incredibly forceful in getting me to go out with her. i'll tell her i'm just not in the mood, but she'll reply back, "yes you are." i tell her again... "no... i'm not in the mood... i'd much rather read (or whatever)." and she'll retort, "lame. you owe me. we're going." i'm often baffled.

    are these qualities much like other ESTJ's? i'm only really familiar with this one and don't know if my mind is biased to think most ESTJ's this way, which is why i've yet to pick out other ESTJ's.
    Wow, that would annoy me too. As for those traits though (i.e. variations on bossiness), I think it depends on the ESTJ. For example, I'm generally more chill than the ESTJ stereotype (even though no one would describe me as "chill" who knows me well ) but I have similar moments to the ones you described above.

    #1: I never do that; I let people order and then I show my disapproval. Example:
    Friend (to the host of a party): I'd like another margarita?
    Me: Are you sure that's a good idea? I thought you told me you had a drink limit?
    Friend: Jeez! Chill out!! Trust me!

    #2: I'll do the same thing, but I'll say please, and prefix it with "Would you...?" So it's not an order. Usually my motivation is efficiency. Example: "Would you keep stirring this pasta sauce on the stove, while I get the pasta strainer?"
    (An exception to this would be when I'm really stressed out about work I have to do:
    Friend: Do you need any help?
    Me: Um... You could get the pasta strainer for me. Actually wait. Could you strain the pasta too? This sauce is not doing what I want it to do; I'm getting kind of concerned about it.)

    #3: It takes me a lot to get in that zone, because most people are put off by that behavior. Closest example I can think of:
    Me (thinking) It's snowing. This is the first snow of the semester. I have a friend who's never seen snow before... (picks up a phone and calls friend) Hey! Have you looked outside? It's snowing! I am on my way to your dorm right now, and I am rescuing you from studying for finals, because this is the first snow of your life and that is more important. Drop your homework and put on your coat!

    To be fair, though, each example you gave, I have seen to a lesser extent in many xxFJs I know, including my supremely type-A INFJ mom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1200
    Senior Member Array IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Wow, that would annoy me too. As for those traits though (i.e. variations on bossiness), I think it depends on the ESTJ. For example, I'm generally more chill than the ESTJ stereotype (even though no one would describe me as "chill" who knows me well ) but I have similar moments to the ones you described above.

    #1: I never do that; I let people order and then I show my disapproval. Example:
    Friend (to the host of a party): I'd like another margarita?
    Me: Are you sure that's a good idea? I thought you told me you had a drink limit?
    Friend: Jeez! Chill out!! Trust me!

    #2: I'll do the same thing, but I'll say please, and prefix it with "Would you...?" So it's not an order. Usually my motivation is efficiency. Example: "Would you keep stirring this pasta sauce on the stove, while I get the pasta strainer?"
    (An exception to this would be when I'm really stressed out about work I have to do:
    Friend: Do you need any help?
    Me: Um... You could get the pasta strainer for me. Actually wait. Could you strain the pasta too? This sauce is not doing what I want it to do; I'm getting kind of concerned about it.)

    #3: It takes me a lot to get in that zone, because most people are put off by that behavior. Closest example I can think of:
    Me (thinking) It's snowing. This is the first snow of the semester. I have a friend who's never seen snow before... (picks up a phone and calls friend) Hey! Have you looked outside? It's snowing! I am on my way to your dorm right now, and I am rescuing you from studying for finals, because this is the first snow of your life and that is more important. Drop your homework and put on your coat!

    To be fair, though, each example you gave, I have seen to a lesser extent in many xxFJs I know, including my supremely type-A INFJ mom.
    perhaps efficiency was always her motivation... but it just comes out in a bossy way. i'll have to pay more attention from now on.

    i've got two INFJ friends, and neeeither display the type of behavior my ESTJ friend does. nor do any of the ESFJ's i know. (but i suppose that's due to the ridiculous amount of energy that ESFJ's have. they just are on top of all of it their self.)
    i can, however, think of one ISFJ that was like this... but it was never towards me. she was the girlfriend of one of my roommates. whenever i'd start a cleaning task or some other project around the house, she had no problems telling him he needs to help me since he lives with me. i did always enjoy her around.... but other ISFJ's i've known didn't really display this executive type behavior. not that i've seen anywho.


    NEXT ESTJ QUESTION:

    what jobs, majors, hobbies, etc. interest you?

    my ESTJ friend has a bachelors in history, and did very well in school. she loves to discuss history topics. she also loves to read. she's fond of vampire stories, scary stories, and romance. she loves surrounding herself around people, but has described herself as social, but not friendly. (funny, because i described myself the opposite-friendly, but not social.) she's a huge fan of trivia nights at our local bars, and i seriously doubt ever misses one.

    also, this particular ESTJ friend of mine leans towards the dark and the evil. she considers herself a slytherin house. but she always describes herself as a mean girl and a b*tch. and most people wouldn't deny her as such. however, she's a nice mean b*tch. it's hard to describe. she can be gossipy, and she isn't the most trustworthy with secrets... in fact, you can expect everyone to know your business if you share it with her. so you don't tell her thinks you don't want getting around. she had also been known in the past for starting drama, rumors, and talking behind people's backs. but with age and perhaps due to friends, including myself, confronting her on these issues as well as banishing her, has stopped this nonsense. but if you ever need someone to be there for you, she's there and always has been and always will be. if i'm sick, she brings me soup. if i need a ride, she's there. if i drink too much, she'll be the one to hold my hair back or make me a cot to pass out on her floor. if i'm broke, she'll buy me a drink or cigarettes or dinner. if i need someone to back me up in some drama situation, she's there for me. and if i'm sad because of a break up or some boy problem, she's there. and when i'm feeling insecure, she builds me up.
    but... without meaning to (or so i like to believe she doesn't do these things intentionally) she can say some non-direct mean things as well. but, i suppose it's because she puts logic and not feelings first and just doesn't always take mine or other peoples emotions into consideration when discussing certain topics.

    are most ESTJ's this strange combination of mean and nice?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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