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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1111
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Hey EJCC and mnestic, I have a few questions....
    Te-Ne loop? Is it possible and what would it look like? Is it similar to Ni-Ti loop of INFJs? Why would it happen? I think I might have found an odd ESTJ in this loop, but I wanted to ask someone with experience as an ESTJ rather than simply conjecture in my own head about it. Thank you for this thread.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

  2. #1112
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keps Mnemnosyne View Post
    Hey EJCC and mnestic, I have a few questions....
    Te-Ne loop? Is it possible and what would it look like? Is it similar to Ni-Ti loop of INFJs? Why would it happen? I think I might have found an odd ESTJ in this loop, but I wanted to ask someone with experience as an ESTJ rather than simply conjecture in my own head about it. Thank you for this thread.
    ... I don't know anything about the Tert Loop concept. I've seen it mentioned in passing on TypeC, but that's just about it. What's the basic idea? Is it that the tertiary function overtakes the dominant one, or something?

    Also, no problem, for this thread! I'm so glad I made it
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1113
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Hmmm, For an ESTJ it would mean that instead of using Te and Si a person is relying on Te and Ne. Nothing wrong with an ESTJ using Ne, but the loop refers to the fact when a type stops using their secondary function and using their third. Which results in two extroverted functions being used primarily for ESTJs. Now what does it mean in practice?
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

  4. #1114
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    It becomes a loop when the two functions just keep on repeating each other but not doing anything constructive. An example is when INFPs fall into a Fi-Si loop where they have all these strong feelings that loop back to past examples, which engender more strong feelings, but they don't break free and do anything productive with them. Or INFJs Ni-Ti loops where they look for possibilities, categorize them internally, present themselves with more options, decide that the structure they chose won't accommodate everything, then check with Ni again to be sure they didn't miss anything and keep on in the same unproductive pattern (really terrible when you try to write papers. Also terrible when you are in a relationship with someone who is behaving badly. You keep reviewing possible reasons for behaviour or solutions/then assess results/then consider new things/then decide you were wrong before and reassess etc.

    Is there a Te-Ne version of doing this where you keep essentially going around and around without it being productive or yielding the results you would like?

  5. #1115
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Hi Keps

    I'd love to help you, but I'm really not well-versed in speaking functionese. What kind of behaviors is this person displaying?
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  6. #1116
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I've gathered some ideas about that Dom-Tert loop throughout the forum. Seems something either immature or dysfunctional.
    One of them is the often discussed NiFi, which results in a sort of angst: feeling bad, making up all sorts of reasons why you should feel bad, feeling worse still... See eg. Harry Potter (ISFP) and the Order of the Phoenix and Colin Craven (INTJ) in The secret garden. Even I can get into this mood, which would mean my fifth and seventh function collaborate to dominance somehow.
    I've seen examples of NeFe too, the extreme version of which is narcistic behavior. I'm a genius and praise me because I need this to confirm my ideas.

    NiTi? How does that look like? And... TeNe??? My husband is a great Si user, to the point where he needs my Ne to get out of the rut
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  7. #1117
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I just explained Ni-Ti two posts above. But, I'm wondering about Te-Ne and how that would look. I think it's not just in cases of immaturity, but also during points of crisis/stress/anxiety that those behaviours tend to crop up most.

  8. #1118
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I just explained Ni-Ti two posts above. But, I'm wondering about Te-Ne and how that would look. I think it's not just in cases of immaturity, but also during points of crisis/stress/anxiety that those behaviours tend to crop up most.
    Okay, true

    Doing nothing productive when there's a Te in the loop? Seems quite contradictory...
    I'm thinking about an occasion in which such a thing can happen. Suppose you've got to do some boring repetitive job.
    Ne: there has to be a way to do it more efficiently.
    Te: let's search
    Ne: this improves the process
    Te: implement it
    Ne: and what about this?
    And without some control mechanism, you'll end up trying out all sorts of improvements and putting more effort in it than needed, maybe resulting in some half-baked solution or even total failure.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  9. #1119
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Okay, true

    Doing nothing productive when there's a Te in the loop? Seems quite contradictory...
    I'm thinking about an occasion in which such a thing can happen. Suppose you've got to do some boring repetitive job.
    Ne: there has to be a way to do it more efficiently.
    Te: let's search
    Ne: this improves the process
    Te: implement it
    Ne: and what about this?
    And without some control mechanism, you'll end up trying out all sorts of improvements and putting more effort in it than needed, maybe resulting in some half-baked solution or even total failure.
    Hm... Maybe? My first instinct was something along the lines of

    Te: "I should be doing something productive."
    Ne: "Hey, let's draw a pretty picture, to put on the wall! "
    Te: "I guess I don't have that many decorations up there... so it's technically productive... Let's do it."

    What Si should be doing in this situation: "WTF PEOPLE I have a LONG LIST of things you could be doing that are WAY more productive."
    Which leads to...
    Te: "Oh right. Sorry Ne. Some other time."
    Ne: "... "
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1120
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'm wondering about Te-Ne and how that would look. I think it's not just in cases of immaturity, but also during points of crisis/stress/anxiety that those behaviours tend to crop up most.
    Absolutely. If I was right in the example I posted just above this - i.e. if that really is what a Te-Ne loop looks like - then it absolutely is a symptom of immaturity and/or stress. When I know that there's something I need to get done, but I'm really stressed out, my Ne makes me easily distractible, and I end up wasting time and feeling guilty about it for hours at a time, when I should be working. And that time-wasting, instead of functioning like a nice break from work, makes me feel horrible, and more stressed.

    Lol, sounds loop-ish to me!
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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