Apologies in advance for this barrage of follow-up questions.
I would agree as well. However, I would also agree with Hard that it doesn't come out in quite as recognizable a way as it does with some types, so it sometimes doesn't occur to the onlooker that it is stress induced.
What's a more recognizable way? How does it register to people, if not as stress-related?
[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] ?
It's nice to have EJCC be able to express what that feels like from an insider's point of view. Any ideas for how to ease the stress part for them?
I agree with [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] for the most part, though her method may be too spouse-specific. It'd take a LOT of trust for me to go through my Fi brainstorming process with someone like that, in the open. (It's different on the forum, because I can take time to collect myself between posts.) But yes, what works well for me is that same style of interaction: expressing empathy, but with a goal in mind -- giving me suggestions for what I can do now (not next time), helping me reframe my perspective so I can have a better attitude, or if things are really shitty and nothing can be fixed, then just being there. Like PB said, the important thing is to create a safe space. Even if the ESTJ can't express themselves in that space right away, they'll be grateful that the space was established, and will most likely take advantage of that space later.
I mean, usually talking about things helps, but for them, that seems to open up a whole other can of worms.
What do you mean? That it's so hard for them to talk it out?
They also can be kind of difficult to do something nice for under those circumstances, as the more upset they are, the more they tend to isolate themselves.
This is actually something I've wondered for a while. If ESTJs are easy to read, and everyone can tell that they're self-isolating due to stress, then why not try to end the isolation and confront us directly about it? Asking us if we're okay?
It's validating that you bring it up, because that means it's not just me. I love it when friends surprise each other with fun things when they're down -- but besides my parents, no one's ever done that for me.
Or do those around the ESTJ that are witnessing that side of them just need to become thicker skinned and not take it as being meant personally, but rather as a more generalized frustration and treat them like they will be fine (kind of a fake it till you make it thing?) and maybe make them something tasty etc?
"Become thicker skinned" -- does that mean we scare people when we're stressed, by exuding so many directionless feelings? Either way, when we're stressed, it's definitely not personal, but I don't know if I'd recommend treating it as if nothing is going on. Some little gesture of recognition is always nice. Cooking them something would be one example, yes, as would doing the dishes for them, or something like that.
I can imagine that having to deal with the emotions of other people on top of whatever it is bothering them doesn't help. What happens when the person becomes stuck in that stress-induced state? Is there a way to help them out of that loop?
if we're stressed about people's feelings, most likely it's because we don't understand them or know how to deal with them. So the best way to help would probably be to help us understand the situation in more ESTJ-friendly terms -- helping us see it as less overwhelming and easier to deal with. If we're just in a mess of emotions and are not sure what's what, then the best thing would probably be to either do what PB suggested, or just be receptive and helpful however you can, while we try to work it out internally.