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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1101
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I'm just popping by to say, "You're awesome!" Again.



    Love reading your stuff.

  2. #1102
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    Firstly, my prior post was not a vent; a recent event did, however, spark its growth. Goal is to understand how to translate how my intentions are basically the same as his without receiving a lobotomy.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I may need more information than this in order to give a good answer, but my initial thought is: Tread very carefully. Take two steps back for every step forward (i.e. try and soften the blows by emphasizing that you aren't taking sides, BUT...)
    "He's not a monster; he's just a dog!"

    Yes, that's always my natural reaction when I'm attacked by him. It's kinda like encountering a real life Cujo, i.e. big, overpowering snarly thing reacting completely on impulse. It seems like an entirely emotional/instinctual reaction, and like the hulk, he returns to human form after doing battle. What happens when you-- the accused-- are physically backed into a wall, have conceded to being a piece of shit, yet the accuser persists? On the other hand, is it common for estjs to reject any information once a spouse or family member feels threatened?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    It makes me really sad It makes me feel like they don't care about me.
    I fully understand that he needs concrete results from me to feel at ease, but what he-- on the other hand-- does not understand is that there are many shades to life, that people can apply very different strategies yet have very similar long-term goals. I sense either intense jealousy from my estj arising from the fact that I'm free to make my own decisions and explore options, or he truly perceives my actions as unethical (going back on promises made simply to avoid contact with an individual who falls back on brutal measures to defend his viewpoints, opinions, family). Which do you think is more likely?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Now here's where I wonder whether I should even bother answering the question. Are you using this post to vent? Because this ESTJ obviously needs serious therapy, not simple advice from someone like me whose only psych experiences are two years at TypeC and one semester of Intro to Psych in college. I get the feeling that there's a lot of subtext in your post, but I'm not very good at reading subtext! Please be blunt with me - bluntness is the only language I'm totally fluent in
    My last paragraph is exactly what happened. We just don't talk or cross paths, really (if I can help it). He threatened to throw a punch, yet hit the wall beside my head (like usual). Which do you think is more likely?

    a) he cares about his step-son too much to hurt him
    b) is fearful of the social repercussions (I would tell other family members, just as any other victim of domestic abuse would rightfully do)
    c) does not wish to pay for possible medical bills
    d) a blend of the above?
    e) none?

  3. #1103
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    Do you end up in a lot of one-way friendships? (Either direction)
    I've had a few of those friendships like EJCC mentioned, the one where the other person is all ZOMG YOU ARE MY BEST FRIEND and I'm all... I think it happens less as I get older. I don't think I have any the other way...?

    And do you feel like you know your friends well but they have no idea who you really are? Or maybe the other way around?
    I hope my friends truly know me-- I'm not at all good at hiding who I am. And as for the other way around? I have no interest in shallow friendships. I want to really know people.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    And with friends, if I feel like they're hiding a lot from me (in terms of feelings and important opinions), that's kind of a turn-off, because I don't hide that much at all. I value the honesty and openness of all of my friends. I'm not the sort of person who likes to pick the Mystery Kid and try to pry open their psyche to see what's inside. (My ENFJ BFF is like this, though. Big time.)
    I used to be interested in prying people open to see what's inside, but I don't have any interest/patience for that now. I want to know what you're like, but only if you want to tell me.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  4. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I dunno... There's a certain kind of silence that I always read as "There's something that I really want to say, but I can't." And maybe I'm right when I think this - and if I am, it might have something to do with my being an enneagram 1 ("my repression sense is tingling!!!") - but I could easily not be.
    I could see that being related to enneagram 1. But yeah, a lot of people have that sense of "S/he wants to say something and is holding back -- what is it?" and I think it is important to trust that... honesty is key in friendships, as you said before.

    Well, "knowing someone well" could just mean that you've been around them long enough to know what they like, or think is funny, which is different from knowing them entirely, though one could argue that what people like is a part of who they are.

    And no problem! You were right about being "lonely" - it would be sad if no one asked me questions here anymore... I like feeling useful, you know?
    I agree to some degree. But I think I have a slightly different definition of knowing someone from most people, as in people will tell me I know them well and I'll be thinking, "But I don't know anything about you...the real you!" I guess I don't consider things they like, etc, as the real them so to speak.

    I don't see this thread sinking for very long, don't worry

    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    I've had a few of those friendships like EJCC mentioned, the one where the other person is all ZOMG YOU ARE MY BEST FRIEND and I'm all... I think it happens less as I get older. I don't think I have any the other way...?


    I hope my friends truly know me-- I'm not at all good at hiding who I am. And as for the other way around? I have no interest in shallow friendships. I want to really know people.


    I used to be interested in prying people open to see what's inside, but I don't have any interest/patience for that now. I want to know what you're like, but only if you want to tell me.
    Thanks to you as well. I really appreciate it. I agree though, there is no point whatsoever in shallow friendships, at least beyond maintaining "acquaintances". But if a friendship is to be good, it better be deep.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

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    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

  5. #1105
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    I used to be interested in prying people open to see what's inside, but I don't have any interest/patience for that now. I want to know what you're like, but only if you want to tell me.
    As an estj, how would you describe how you "pry" into others? To me, prying (the word) has a negative connotation; maybe you can address this.

  6. #1106
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    I'm curious, Joe - is this regular behavior for your ESTJ? Does he usually threaten violence? I'm going to assume that it's not regular, and that he's usually just scary and angry when he doesn't get his way. But if I'm assuming wrong, let me know, and I'll re-answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    What happens when you-- the accused-- are physically backed into a wall, have conceded to being a piece of shit, yet the accuser persists? On the other hand, is it common for estjs to reject any information once a spouse or family member feels threatened?
    Again, I feel like I need more information than this... like, e.g, what does "conceded to being a piece of shit" really mean? Presumably you don't mean that literally - as in, the ESTJ saying "Yes, I am the scum of the earth..." But if someone was verbally attacking me for, say, something I did, and I conceded that what I did was wrong and I was really sorry, and they kept attacking me for it, then I'd react with something like "Okay, enough already! I feel bad enough as is! I get it. Please stop." And if they kept going, I might get choked up. (But I'm a girl, so...)
    I fully understand that he needs concrete results from me to feel at ease, but what he-- on the other hand-- does not understand is that there are many shades to life, that people can apply very different strategies yet have very similar long-term goals. I sense either intense jealousy from my estj arising from the fact that I'm free to make my own decisions and explore options, or he truly perceives my actions as unethical (going back on promises made simply to avoid contact with an individual who falls back on brutal measures to defend his viewpoints, opinions, family). Which do you think is more likely?
    Definitely, definitely the latter. No way is it jealousy. ESTJs don't long for freedom, Joe We make our own little cage to live in, and we stay there happily! It's the INFPs who want to escape. What's going on here, is that ESTJs really only understand the life paths that are "normal", and if you take a path that they don't consider "normal", then they won't approve, because they don't think it's the best choice. However, if you were to rationally explain, in a way that makes sense to them (i.e. BLUNTLY AND CONCISELY!!!), why you made those choices, they would, eventually, accept your choices and not nag you anymore. (That's what happened with me and my hyper-unconventional ENTP friend. She convinced me why her choices were what was best for her, and why they met her needs perfectly at the time, and I went "Sure, whatever. Not what I would do, but to each their own...")
    My last paragraph is exactly what happened.
    I figured it was. The reason why I asked is because your question seemed so - for lack of a better word - insane, to me, at the time. "Did he fake punch me in the head because he cares about me?" Your ESTJ's act was abusive, and abusive behavior is not MBTI-related. Joe, your ESTJ has issues, and when people have issues that serious, any normal, MBTI-ish traits that they have/had suddenly become warped and skewed. There have been lots of questions on this thread about messed-up ESTJs, and I often have trouble answering them because I just can't relate. ESTJs aren't naturally violent people.
    We just don't talk or cross paths, really (if I can help it). He threatened to throw a punch, yet hit the wall beside my head (like usual). Which do you think is more likely?

    a) he cares about his step-son too much to hurt him
    b) is fearful of the social repercussions (I would tell other family members, just as any other victim of domestic abuse would rightfully do)
    c) does not wish to pay for possible medical bills
    d) a blend of the above?
    e) none?
    Based on my knowledge of scary people like your ESTJ, I'd say that (unless you have examples to prove me wrong) he's not actually capable of violence. He just wanted to scare you, in order to motivate you to follow the rules. I actually kinda-sorta understand what he did (but am NOT ADVOCATING IT) - in that, when I was in middle school, I had a strange and awkward time trying to deal with my anger, and would do bizarre stuff like that. Not threatening to punch people, and not getting angry with loved ones (I WOULD NEVER DO THAT EVER!!!) but once I accidentally smacked someone in the face with a hard plastic lunchbox, hoping that they would dodge it. Same type of thing. Sometimes, if you get really frustrated and you can't come up with a solution, you've got to let that out. Although a better way would be to listen to some punk rock at full volume But that's just my opinion
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1107
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Hi ESTJs,

    Do you sometimes oppose something for the sake of being in control?
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  8. #1108
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penny89 View Post
    I agree to some degree. But I think I have a slightly different definition of knowing someone from most people, as in people will tell me I know them well and I'll be thinking, "But I don't know anything about you...the real you!" I guess I don't consider things they like, etc, as the real them so to speak.
    I think you're right. I guess I just have a hard time thinking in those terms. I take so much pride in being honest and genuine, that I would hate to think that what I show people on a daily basis isn't "the real me".

    Also, if you define "the real me" as the side that only true friends see, i.e. the side that you'd rather that no one else judge you on, then "the real me" is the part that takes over when I'm upset and (briefly) turns me into a sickeningly insecure 13-year-old emo kid. And if people judged me on that alone, then they would be justified in never ever wanting to spend time with me.
    I don't see this thread sinking for very long, don't worry
    Yay!!!

    Thanks for helping by asking questions I appreciate it!
    I used to be interested in prying people open to see what's inside, but I don't have any interest/patience for that now. I want to know what you're like, but only if you want to tell me.
    Yes! A notable exception being if a person TOTALLY THROWS THEMSELF AT YOU and you're like "Too much information!!! " In which case I want to get the hell away as soon as possible. I actually have a one-way friendship like that, where I felt like an Acme anvil of traumatic family history got dropped on my head within a couple weeks of meeting her. And she cried on me for an hour... and the whole time, I was thinking " What do I do???!?" And since then I've had a hard time wanting to be her (actual) friend, because I just associate her with emotional unloading, and not with any actual non-overbearingly friendly behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainne View Post
    Hi ESTJs,

    Do you sometimes oppose something for the sake of being in control?
    Personally, I would rather be on the right side of the debate, than be in control. When I'm in situations where I was really outspoken/controlling about a particular issue, and I find out that my position was totally wrong, I concede out of humiliation, in as low-key a manner as possible, quietly and letting other people lead instead of me. That is, until I calm down again and come up with arguments for the RIGHT side

    But I dunno whether that's a typical ESTJ thing.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1109
    don't fence me in sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainne View Post
    Hi ESTJs,

    Do you sometimes oppose something for the sake of being in control?
    Do you have an example?
    I know that I will oppose things to stay in control of *myself* and not be pushed into doing things I don't want to do, and I will oppose them quite forcefully, but I have very little interest in being "in control" of other people.


    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    As an estj, how would you describe how you "pry" into others? To me, prying (the word) has a negative connotation; maybe you can address this.
    Perhaps "pry" is the wrong word, as, I agree, it does have negative connotations. Basically, just asking questions that may seem kind of invasive, wanting to figure them out. We're not real known for our tact, us ESTJs, so I suppose that questions could seem like an interrogation.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I think you're right. I guess I just have a hard time thinking in those terms. I take so much pride in being honest and genuine, that I would hate to think that what I show people on a daily basis isn't "the real me".
    YES I mean, there's parts of me that I don't show to lots of people, but the rest of me isn't a *facade*. I'm pretty what-you-see-is-what-you-get.

    Yes! A notable exception being if a person TOTALLY THROWS THEMSELF AT YOU and you're like "Too much information!!! " In which case I want to get the hell away as soon as possible. I actually have a one-way friendship like that, where I felt like an Acme anvil of traumatic family history got dropped on my head within a couple weeks of meeting her. And she cried on me for an hour... and the whole time, I was thinking " What do I do???!?" And since then I've had a hard time wanting to be her (actual) friend, because I just associate her with emotional unloading, and not with any actual non-overbearingly friendly behavior.
    YES. It is so very different if it's a mutual "click" sort of thing, where we're both sharing all this information, but I would be SO uncomfortable/turned off if I just had a person dump a bunch of emotional stuff on me. I've said it before, but I find emotions, mine and others', draining, so I would have a huge DO NOT WANT reaction to that.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  10. #1110
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    I forgot to respond to your responses, but thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    YES I mean, there's parts of me that I don't show to lots of people, but the rest of me isn't a *facade*. I'm pretty what-you-see-is-what-you-get.
    The bolded is what I think I was getting at from when I first asked this... Interesting. Thanks guys
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

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