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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1061
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    See, it's a good thing that I don't have cable, because I'd do nothing except watch "Dirty Jobs" and "Mythbusters"! (Also, that "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" show on TLC because it scares the shit out of me. )
    I sense an ESTJ trait here - appreciation for goofy fluff shows!
    Quote Originally Posted by DJAchtundvierzig View Post
    So... I heard the ESTJ is supposed to be a great match for the INFJ... why is this? And what do you like about the INFJ?
    There are lots of theories as to why particular types go with particular other types. But in my mind, as long as love and chemistry and mutual understanding are there, type doesn't matter all that much.

    But I really like the INFJs in my life. I especially like them when I know them well and they know me well, because when you're good friends with an INFJ, they don't try as hard to keep you happy. You don't just get the default people-pleasing side - you get the blunt comments and the sarcastic remarks and (most entertainingly) the bitching. Lots and lots of bitching.

    But my serious answer: I like that INFJs are the people-translators of the world. They "get" so many people, that they can explain them to others very easily. (So many conversations with my INFJ mom have started with "Hey Mom... O Intuitive One... I have a question...." )
    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    Are my fellow ESTJs prone to having bad tempers?
    When I was a lot younger, I definitely had a hair-trigger temper. Now, I'm inclined to say that, even though a lot of people think they've seen me angry, almost no one really has, because (since I'm an enneagram 1), I keep composure when I'm very upset. I still get angry when I'm frustrated, and I get angry when something that would otherwise just be irritating either escalates or continues for far too long. But when I get really pissed off, it bubbles just barely beneath the surface - but so close to the surface, that all I need is permission from someone nearby, in order to let some of it out. Ironically, there are occasions when angry tone slips out, but those moments are not my most angry moments. So, when people are surprised by how "angry" I am about something, I'm just as surprised that they think that, because the anger I let out is nothing compared to the anger that I hold in. Sometimes, the anger I show is exaggerated, in an attempt at humor that some people don't recognize (and I think you referenced a similar trend with you a couple pages back, mnestic) - whereas sometimes when I'm irritated with someone, I'll accidentally let slip a comment about how they "just need to stop complaining and do something about it". Not that I'm mad - I just can't hold in my Te any longer!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #1062
    don't fence me in Array sui generis's Avatar
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    ^^^ Your response is all kinds of good and awesome and I identify with it like woah-- but I'm too tired to give it the response it deserves. Just wanted to let you know that you win at life.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  3. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    When I was a lot younger, I definitely had a hair-trigger temper. Now, I'm inclined to say that, even though a lot of people think they've seen me angry, almost no one really has
    ...
    Ironically, there are occasions when angry tone slips out, but those moments are not my most angry moments. So, when people are surprised by how "angry" I am about something, I'm just as surprised that they think that, because the anger I let out is nothing compared to the anger that I hold in. Sometimes, the anger I show is exaggerated, in an attempt at humor that some people don't recognize (and I think you referenced a similar trend with you a couple pages back, mnestic)
    I identify with all of these things. I had a hell of a temper when I was a kid, and learning to defuse that has been a big part of growing into my personality. Making peace with the F side of me has helped a lot, but evidently when I'm tired and struggling with things, I'm prone to being all hot-tempered again. :steam:

    I don't know how to describe the connection between my temper and the misread-humor thing, but I'm sure there is one.

    Also- I am very easily to get slightly irritated, but very hard to make *really* mad. People misinterpret my irritation for Srs Anger, when most of them haven't seen me get Srsly Angry.

    Have you ever been called an "angry person"? I have a few times, mostly during adolescence, but it is kind of baffling to me. Like, how do opinionated and confident translate into "angry"? And would I have been called that if I were a guy ESTJ? :steam: My inner life isn't angry most of the time, unless something is seriously wrong, so the idea that I'm an angry person makes me .

    sometimes when I'm irritated with someone, I'll accidentally let slip a comment about how they "just need to stop complaining and do something about it". Not that I'm mad - I just can't hold in my Te any longer!
    I don't say things I don't mean when I'm angry. I say things I mean very much but have been biting back in attempts to preserve the peace!
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  4. #1064
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    I identify with all of these things. I had a hell of a temper when I was a kid, and learning to defuse that has been a big part of growing into my personality. Making peace with the F side of me has helped a lot, but evidently when I'm tired and struggling with things, I'm prone to being all hot-tempered again. :steam:
    Yeah, I think a lot of Thinkers are like this, regardless of what type of Thinking they use. I've seen this a lot as a kid, what with there being more than one Thinking dom in the house (i.e. me with Te and my INTP dad with Ti). We're both very good at being polite and socially apt most of the time, but the veil disappears when we're pissed off.
    I don't know how to describe the connection between my temper and the misread-humor thing, but I'm sure there is one.
    I think I know... ESTJ humor is often just exaggerated storytelling with commentary. When people take the exaggeration as total seriousness - and usually the exaggeration is anger, though sometimes I exaggerate excitement too - then they don't get the humor. Did I describe it right?
    Also- I am very easily to get slightly irritated, but very hard to make *really* mad. People misinterpret my irritation for Srs Anger, when most of them haven't seen me get Srsly Angry.
    ...
    I don't say things I don't mean when I'm angry. I say things I mean very much but have been biting back in attempts to preserve the peace!
    Exactly!!!
    Have you ever been called an "angry person"? I have a few times, mostly during adolescence, but it is kind of baffling to me. Like, how do opinionated and confident translate into "angry"? And would I have been called that if I were a guy ESTJ? :steam: My inner life isn't angry most of the time, unless something is seriously wrong, so the idea that I'm an angry person makes me .
    Aw Sad. Thankfully no one has ever called me that. I've been described as opinionated, arrogant, blunt, annoying, and insensitive, and I've also had the "I give and give and you give nothing in return" speech thrown at me on multiple occasions But no one's ever called me an angry person. I wonder if it has to do with geography... Do you live in a more sexist town/state, do you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #1065
    don't fence me in Array sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Yeah, I think a lot of Thinkers are like this, regardless of what type of Thinking they use. I've seen this a lot as a kid, what with there being more than one Thinking dom in the house (i.e. me with Te and my INTP dad with Ti). We're both very good at being polite and socially apt most of the time, but the veil disappears when we're pissed off.
    My dad was an INTP as well. I understand.

    I think I know... ESTJ humor is often just exaggerated storytelling with commentary. When people take the exaggeration as total seriousness - and usually the exaggeration is anger, though sometimes I exaggerate excitement too - then they don't get the humor. Did I describe it right?
    ABSOLUTELY. Your connection of the misunderstood-humor and anger is spot on. Way to go.


    Aw Sad. Thankfully no one has ever called me that. I've been described as opinionated, arrogant, blunt, annoying, and insensitive, and I've also had the "I give and give and you give nothing in return" speech thrown at me on multiple occasions But no one's ever called me an angry person. I wonder if it has to do with geography... Do you live in a more sexist town/state, do you think?
    I've never gotten the "I give..." speech in my life, though I'm always afraid of that. I've also heard that I'm "contentious" (during a JOB INTERVIEW; she definitely wouldn't have said that to a male candidate). I've been called annoying and blunt as well (though I consider "blunt" a compliment, "annoying" always hurts a little ). I've never out and out been called a bitch, surprisingly, at least not to my face.

    I don't know if the areas where I have lived are more or less sexist than others. I live in the Midwest, but I've always lived in cities, not rural areas, and the city where I live now is pretty progressive. Maybe I've just met different assholes than you have.

    BTW, I met another female ESTJ this weekend. It was interesting, as I've never met another (confirmed) one IRL. There was kind of a tension as we both had natural desires to monopolize the conversation, but there was also kind of an understanding.

    Um, does anyone have any actual *questions*? I don't mean to take up all the thread by chatting.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  6. #1066
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    I've never gotten the "I give..." speech in my life, though I'm always afraid of that. I've also heard that I'm "contentious" (during a JOB INTERVIEW; she definitely wouldn't have said that to a male candidate). I've been called annoying and blunt as well (though I consider "blunt" a compliment, "annoying" always hurts a little ). I've never out and out been called a bitch, surprisingly, at least not to my face.
    Well, that last part is good, anyway! I haven't been called a bitch either (to my face)... and I consider "blunt" a compliment when I remind myself that what they really meant was "honest"

    And speaking of being called things... have you ever been called "reserved"? I was called that by a close friend, and I was surprised, mostly because I am completely the opposite of reserved in a lot of cases (notably, my opinions, and also when I'm excited or irritated about something), but then I realized that he was right. Is this just an Enneagram 1 thing?
    Maybe I've just met different assholes than you have.
    I'll bet that's it. Also, you're a bit older than I am, and that might have a role in it too. Hey, do you find that guys stereotype you a lot less than they might stereotype other women? I ask because I've found that, when I'm around older men, they're so taken aback by how opinionated I am about everything, and how willing/able I am to rant about things in a reasonably articulate way for long periods of time, that they just sort of go "Wow, you have opinions," and just sit and listen, entertained-ly, while I rant. I figured (pardon my stereotyping) that since you're an enneagram 8 (more aggressive and powerful) and I'm an enneagram 1 (more reserved and controlled), that if you had a similar experience, you might have it even more than me...
    BTW, I met another female ESTJ this weekend. It was interesting, as I've never met another (confirmed) one IRL. There was kind of a tension as we both had natural desires to monopolize the conversation, but there was also kind of an understanding.
    I had a similar experience with a female ESTP a couple of months ago. What ended up happening, after my initial reaction of "What the hell are you doing? ", was that I accepted just how much more outgoing and aggressive she is than me, and adapted accordingly. This probably sounds really weird, but it actually felt nice - I was able to let go of a lot of my internal pressure and just let her take control. I figured, hey, if she wanted that power so much, she could have it! It's not like I would have used it much. I'm a lot more into controlling myself than controlling others. *Pauses and looks shocked at unexpected insight of last sentence *

    p.s. Didn't mean for that comment to hold any sort of hidden meaning - I just had a random anecdote... I'm actually jealous of your ESTJ experience, seeing as how I've only ever met one ESTJ my age IRL and not only was the ESTJ a guy, but he was totally disinterested in me
    Um, does anyone have any actual *questions*? I don't mean to take up all the thread by chatting.
    Hey, we're asking each other questions! It counts as being productive
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1067
    don't fence me in Array sui generis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I consider "blunt" a compliment when I remind myself that what they really meant was "honest"
    Hell, aren't those just synonyms anyway? In my head they are.


    And speaking of being called things... have you ever been called "reserved"? I was called that by a close friend, and I was surprised
    DUDE! Now that you mention it, I HAVE. It was from a then-friend, an ENTP. She was more extroverted than me, so I guess it made sense, but... really? I think I'm kind of an open book. I've never heard it from anyone else, though.


    Hey, do you find that guys stereotype you a lot less than they might stereotype other women? I ask because I've found that, when I'm around older men, they're so taken aback by how opinionated I am about everything, and how willing/able I am to rant about things in a reasonably articulate way for long periods of time, that they just sort of go "Wow, you have opinions," and just sit and listen, entertained-ly, while I rant.
    I get this! Though I'd always just chalked it up to being intelligent plus not being conventionally ~gorgeous~. Maybe the ESTJness (i.e. not being typically feminine in personality) has something to do with it as well.


    I accepted just how much more outgoing and aggressive she is than me, and adapted accordingly. This probably sounds really weird, but it actually felt nice - I was able to let go of a lot of my internal pressure and just let her take control. I figured, hey, if she wanted that power so much, she could have it!
    I do this too, largely because I'm only about 60% extrovert.

    I actually started talking a lot more when the conversation turned to MBTI and she revealed that she was an ESTJ. I was all *lightbulb!* oh, I get you and I know how to relate to you now!

    I'm a lot more into controlling myself than controlling others. *Pauses and looks shocked at unexpected insight of last sentence *
    YES. I am the same way. Reminds me of a conversation I had with my building's caretaker about my personality conflict with my old roommate. She noted that he had a need to be a boss, and I had a need to be the boss, and there can't be two bosses. I corrected her-- I was like, well, I don't seek to be the boss of anyone except myself, but I'll be damned if I'll be bossed by someone else. Also, I don't expect other people to be as anally-retentive J-pref as I am. My rules apply to me only.

    p.s. Didn't mean for that comment to hold any sort of hidden meaning - I just had a random anecdote... I'm actually jealous of your ESTJ experience, seeing as how I've only ever met one ESTJ my age IRL and not only was the ESTJ a guy, but he was totally disinterested in me
    Aw. And I didn't take it as anything except face value. That's just how i roll.

    Hey, we're asking each other questions! It counts as being productive
    You're right!
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  8. #1068
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnestic View Post
    Maybe the ESTJness (i.e. not being typically feminine in personality) has something to do with it as well.
    Definitely.
    I was all *lightbulb!* oh, I get you and I know how to relate to you now!
    This happens to me so many times that it's started to make me question how well I can actually understand someone without using a tool to analyze their thought processes But I think I doubt myself too much in that regard. I have zero faith in my ability to read people.
    I don't seek to be the boss of anyone except myself, but I'll be damned if I'll be bossed by someone else.
    For me, it actually depends on whether I accept their authority, or whether I'm willing to help them. Though I've had trouble with that recently, since what once seemed like favors for certain people has started to feel like obnoxious, thankless control freakery.
    My rules apply to me only.
    YES. fidelia and I, and other people asking me questions here, have had all these interchanges like "How can an ESTJ be okay with spending time with all these 'stupid' people when obviously they're the 'superior' ones who always know the 'right' way of doing things?" And each time I've had to explain that firstly, we're always going to trust our own judgment before that of other people unless given a reason to do otherwise, and secondly, just like you said, our standards for ourselves have nothing at all to do with our standards for others (except for, you know, honesty and decency).

    I figure I should ask other things, so I'm not just reiterating your previous points... Productivity is good ...

    1. Do you have dreams, be they good or bad, and if so, do they ever have kind of a theme, unrelated to events going on in your life? (Discounting any nightmares about wolves or monsters or whatever.)
    2. I read somewhere on this forum that you're training in library science? What inspired you to go that direction, career-wise?
    3. Are most of your friends S or N?
    4. If you can't answer someone honestly, do you not reply at all, or do you lie?
    5. We can has an ESTJ girls' sleepover party? We could tell stories, and Q&A each other about type or whatever the hell else, and watch action movies
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1069
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    6. How awesome is it to be interrogated by a puppy wearing a hat and emo glasses?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1070
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    Oooh, questions for MEEE!

    I'm hella sleepy so I will have to get to them tomorrow, but my first thought was-- an ESTJ girls' sleepover would be SO LOUD OMG, but so awesome.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

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