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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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That reminds me of an ENTJ I used to know. Are ESTJs and ENTJs similar in this regard?
I would suspect that ESTJs would be worse about it, considering Si.

Sometimes I let my INFP sentiments get to me in a an externalized way. But most of the time, I'd be passive-aggressive or something. :D I know that can be every bit as problematic though. It's something I've been working on.
That sounds like the opposite of "too nice". :laugh:

Yeah, most of the time when I hear stuff like that, I wonder what sort of "not nice" those girls are looking for.

Do estjs masturbate ?

Jonathan+Edwards.jpg


Jonathan Edwards disapproves of your question.
 

Olm the Water King

across the universe
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That sounds like the opposite of "too nice".

Haha no no, most of the time I'm very nice. I'm just saying that occasionally I might let my feelings get the best of me in terms of interpersonal relations, and in those times, I'm usually passive-aggressive. But this happens like 5% of the time. Still, 5% is too much lol.

My initial question was about the other 95%.
 

Hitoshi-San

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What one ESTJ stereotype makes you fuming mad?

What kind of humor do you appreciate the most?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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What one ESTJ stereotype makes you fuming mad?
I don't know if any of them make me fuming mad. I've seen them all, at this point. I guess the stupid ones -- like that they can't think critically. Type isn't related to critical thinking ability IME.

What kind of humor do you appreciate the most?
:thinking: My friends could probably answer that better than me. My instinct is to say the clever kind -- more on the "a-ha" side of humor, than the "ha-ha" side. Kind of dark, kind of dry. I like the Coen Brothers and similar movies ("Bernie" is a recent favorite), but I'm not the biggest fan of mainstream comedy films (a la Judd Apatow).

Sophomoric humor usually doesn't do much for me (although I really liked "The Aristocrats"), and I really hate awkward humor. I often have to get up and leave the room during awkward movie/TV scenes.
 

EJCC

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My question -- which is for other ESTJs, people who are close to ESTJs, and perhaps also ENTJs -- relates to the below quote from my blog:

EJCC said:
I don't know how other ESTJs deal with emotional buildup without exploding and/or imploding and/or feeling very alone and unable to express themselves without seeming as crazy as they feel. ("I've been really upset and I don't know why. Please help me. I don't know what to do." Lol yeah that works in casual conversation.)

So, how DO you deal with emotional buildup? How do you talk to people about it when you're in that kind of isolated and crazy/distorted/desperate inferior-Fi mental space?


Summoning some people, off the top of my head, who know ESTJs well:

[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] [MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION]
 

á´…eparted

passages
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My question -- which is for other ESTJs, people who are close to ESTJs, and perhaps also ENTJs -- relates to the below quote from my blog:

So, how DO you deal with emotional buildup? How do you talk to people about it when you're in that kind of isolated and crazy/distorted/desperate inferior-Fi mental space?

Summoning some people, off the top of my head, who know ESTJs well:

The best ESTJ that I know is my father, and he never lets me see that part of himself, and he will take that to the grave. It's mostly because I am his child and there are certain ways he sees he must parent and doesn't want his flaws to be seen by me which for years really upset me, but what can you do? :shrug:

What I know about him in those regards has been from asking others. Even then, those close to him have never really given examples of him seeking aid with emotional build up. He has always been profoundly secretive surrounding his emotions, which is ironic given his expressiveness and outspoken nature. His wife might have seen/helped, but she'd be as tight lipped as him and wouldn't broach the subject. I have noticed that if he goes through a frustrating experience, he'll recount it to those he knows well. Not so much to seek advice, but to explain it and ultimately hear someone say "you're right" or "that sucks".
 

Mademoiselle

noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH
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What’s your opinion about friendship?
 

Osalo

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My question -- which is for other ESTJs, people who are close to ESTJs, and perhaps also ENTJs -- relates to the below quote from my blog:

So, how DO you deal with emotional buildup? How do you talk to people about it when you're in that kind of isolated and crazy/distorted/desperate inferior-Fi mental space?

I suspect this is a broad ST problem. Feeling overwhelms objectivity which then warps our senses. Kind of like when I get sick of waiting for pasta to boil and then a giant mound of foam ASPLODES out from underneath the lid. It's like a starchy volcano until it cools down, whereupon the terrifying mess evaporates. I have a hard time determining if my metaphor works or not. I should really just go to bed...
 

aliciacan

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Thanks for doing this thread! I've only been identifying as an ESTJ (instead of an ISTJ) recently, and this has been incredibly helpful in verifying that I really am an ESTJ. I actually joined the forums because I had been binging on this topic, haha.
 

Showbread

climb on
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My question -- which is for other ESTJs, people who are close to ESTJs, and perhaps also ENTJs -- relates to the below quote from my blog:



So, how DO you deal with emotional buildup? How do you talk to people about it when you're in that kind of isolated and crazy/distorted/desperate inferior-Fi mental space?


Summoning some people, off the top of my head, who know ESTJs well:

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], the ESTJ I know best is my dad so it's a little tricky. My dad definitely tries to reason away his feelings. And like a lot of men in Western culture, a broad range of emotions present as anger/frustration. He definitely does not ask for help when he is distressed. He kind of gets hell bent on fixing everything himself in an almost manic way. Then when he fails his pride/self-esteem plummets and kind of retreats inside. The "men never ask for directions" stereotype pretty much nails it. In terms of general emotional buildup, he definitely internalizes. It just kind of builds until he explodes and then everything pisses him off, even if it's completely unrelated.
 

devaf

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Hey ESTJ, what do you think of the following, a little piece (not so little, longish, lol) I wrote to start getting my mind wired into MBTI analysis

Minutes of a meeting

estj and intj buy complex computer program for internal office use, on trial on the recommendation of an expert consultant

estj, sets up a webex meeting, opens it up and starts configuring it. its the opposite of intuitive, not even sure what the menus do and there are humungous options.

intj - give me a couple of days we will re schedule this meeting

estj - hang on, just watch this, i am pretty sure this is going to do that

after a few minutes,

estj - why isn't it doing that? I think its a bug, don't you? I have used similar things, it should let us do this.

intj - we should define what we want to do with this exactly and have a written list of that first. Then we read the manual, then start configuring. we should also, before even evaluating it, set up access controls and bring in the techs who will actually be doing this in future.

estj - why the f** do you want to do all that now, we need to see if it works, thats what the trial is for. I am going to call their support.

intj - they're not going to configure it for you. They can only answer specific questions. They do have a paid training program, but its not good value for money, too pricey.as they say in the open source forums, rtfm.

estj - hang on, i have called them, can you hear? its ringing, I have it on speaker. I can conference in your cell if you like.
...its before hours, SLAM sound

estj - whats rtfm?

intj - means read the effing manual

estj - you never say 'f***', do you? pardon my f****** french, ha ha ha

intj - funny, funny. ok, i am going to bring in X alone, he can teach the guys on the other shifts later. we need to set up access restriction from the start as the first thing.

estj - ok, i'll play around with it. i am pretty good at this stuff, don't you think? You have seen me work this kinda stuff.

intj - silence

estj - how long will the access control take?

intj - about 10 minutes

estj - i say we do it right now. Whaddya think?

intj - ok, no problem. give me 15 minutes, i will call you back when its done. We give X, you and me access.

estj - ok.

10 minutes later, back on call.

intj - done

estj - great, that was nice and quick. X is joining us in a minute.

intj - what for?

estj - wtf, you said you wanted to start with him.

intj - but there are other steps

estj - i am confused. what steps?

intj - we will use this call to note down a bulleted list of the things we need done with this thing. then , give me a couple days to read the manual. we will start configuring it and call support with specific questions.

estj - ok, i will leave all that to you, this is all a left brain thing, its right up your alley.

intj - ok, no problem. the left brain right brain business is a myth, like i told you before, maybe around 102 times so far.

oop, the manual says there are known issues with MySQL.

estj - so its not good for us? its not gonna work? can you give me the link to the manual?

intj - here you go. look at link X.

estj - hang on, i have to put this link in a notepad in my dropbox folder.

intj - ok

estj - i have too many folders and files, i am losing track of it all

intj - let me organize it for you

estj - no, no, i got it now. do you see it in your dropbox, i put it under your folder

intj - i don't use the dropbox. i use our vault, so should you, its secure and auto backed up. its ok, as long as your not putting sensitive credentials there

estj - its also secure and encrypted. i am sure they won't lose the data. i have XYZ backup program for my computer anyhow.

intj - sure, but its external, we built our own now. are you storing your credentials in dropbox?

estj - i have to learn all that suff again.we will get there soon.hang on. (Yells some instructions to someone halfway across the floor asking that X need not join the meeting)
OKAY, so its not going to work for us?

intj - it will work, i am sure

estj - but you said it doesn't work if we use MySQL.

intj - i did not, but there are some settings to be done for MySQL.I just read up on it.

estj - i thought you did say that. it sounded like you said that. so you think you can set it up now?

intj - no, not now, later. i will read up first.

estj - ok send that list when you have it done, i'll finalize it.

intj - ok

estj - you have the support number to call? i just emailed it to you along with their working hours for your reference.
how is your neck pain? did you start the yoga exercise yet? I used to have that, its all about posture and i find that this yoga excercise really helps.

intj - ok

estj - thank you for everything, i really appreciate it.I have another meeting to jump ontolater in the hour, i could use the time to prepare something for it.OK, i will talk to you soon, bye bye.

intj - ok, bye.

2 days later - new meeting with X, ESTJ and INTJ

estj - hi how are you? X, how are things? You did a good job with that issue last week.

X - thanks

estj - OK, lets get started, where are we at?

intj - ok , we got the primary goals and then other goals set out. we are gonna configure and get it all done now.

estj - right. everybody should have that file open.X, do you have it before you?

X - yes

estj - ok, so you know how to configure it

intj - we are gonna try

[technicalities and blah ... until everything is pretty much done, except for some setting]

X - let me re read page x to see how thats done

estj - i have been playing with it, i know how, here, let me show you.

I told you this was just like program X. I am real good at finding and doings things.

2 second silence

Thats what I do, get things done.I may not be in your league in this area, but i am pretty good at it, whaddya say?

intj - yes, you are good.

estj - ok, X will train Y and Z on it, so we have someone round the clock that knows this stuff. Have you tested the access control?

intj - the access controls work.

estj - but did you test it out, see if someone else can get in and use the program?

intj - no, but if this isn't working, then everything else about it will be broken too, so its bound to work.

estj - i think we should test it. X will test it when you get a chance. INTJ's time is too valuable to be used for this.
Ok, thats a nice piece of work. thanks. so we can go ahead and buy it, i will tell A to buy it. OK?

intj - ok

estj - alright, we are all set here now. thank you, i have to run out for an hour or more now, my son is here, going to grab a bite to eat with him.Hows your baby doing, X? How old is she now?

X and ESTJ start to discuss various baby stats, milestones and advice etc. INTJ tries to tune out and then interrupts

INTJ - 'OK, i gotta go now, bye'

X - ok, bye

ESTJ - bye bye
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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[MENTION=23656]devaf[/MENTION], my general thoughts:

  • This is VERY familiar, and almost exactly how I work -- right down to the abrupt tone shifts (lighthearted Ne humor to Te "ok let's get things done NOW")
  • The points of type-related conflict are exactly what I would have expected for an INTJ and an ESTJ -- namely, the ESTJ going "Why aren't you giving me all the information?" and the INTJ going "Why can't you see this shit coming from a mile away??"
  • You clearly have a very different opinion on the ESTJ's strengths and weaknesses than the ESTJ does. The two of you NEED to have a talk about that, since from these interactions and from the thread you made earlier, it looks like that's breeding resentment. Not in the ESTJ, because the ESTJ is oblivious. But in you.
    Edit: Do you guys do performance reviews? That would be a good time to have that conversation.
 
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EJCC

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Oh no, missed these!

What’s your opinion about friendship?
In general? What do you mean?

I suspect this is a broad ST problem. Feeling overwhelms objectivity which then warps our senses. Kind of like when I get sick of waiting for pasta to boil and then a giant mound of foam ASPLODES out from underneath the lid. It's like a starchy volcano until it cools down, whereupon the terrifying mess evaporates. I have a hard time determining if my metaphor works or not. I should really just go to bed...
:laugh: I like the image, either way. I also like the idea of seeing my feelings as a "starchy volcano".

Thanks for doing this thread! I've only been identifying as an ESTJ (instead of an ISTJ) recently, and this has been incredibly helpful in verifying that I really am an ESTJ. I actually joined the forums because I had been binging on this topic, haha.
No problem! :cheers: Glad it's been helpful!

FWIW I've been mistyping as an ISTJ a lot, recently. Maybe it's a gender thing. Female ESTJs aren't quite as domineering as male ESTJs in my experience.

(You still around the forum, by the way?)
 

devaf

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[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

This is actually a fictional piece written from imagination. Intended as a humorous piece, thats why I didn't post in the previous thread or link back to that. I am very glad to see that you think its accurate insofar as type traits are concerned. I am immediately concerned with validating typing of people. In other words, that its not so unscientific as it can sometimes be made out as. I was trying to write to see if my understanding of the traits are on target. There is no resentment, according to me. If there is such anything I will tell it immediately, not brood over things. What makes the ESTJ think there is resentment? I ask because you are not the first one I know, LOL, who thinks I am upset at something in all these transactions.
The performance reviews may be a good idea. Of course we administer these, but not participate, ha ha. The accountant is our performance review thus far.
The last question for you: Did you enjoy the piece? I'd like to write more in future to include other types.
 

EJCC

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In general, also what does it mean to you, and how do you practice it in your personal life?
I'll give the first answer/set of answers that comes to mind, since going with my gut is probably going to give an answer that's more "true to type":

  • Being "a good friend" is something that, at a particular friendship point, I feel obligated to be, and I feel like my friends should be as well. In a good friendship, my friend and I will be
    • relatively easy to open up to
    • willing to open up; not overly closed-off; not hard to read
    • loyal and kind
    • objective and honest (which IMO is more loyal than refusing to question the friend)
    • trustworthy
    • respectful, e.g. with the other's time, energy, feelings
  • Friendly acquaintanceship is when I meet someone who I click with, enjoy talking to, enjoy being around, etc. A person who I find easy to interact with, whose presence is refreshing and not effortful/burdensome.
  • Medium level friendship is when 1) I have a deeper understanding of the person to the point that I am fairly confident that I can trust them and open up to them a bit, and 2) they have proven to be "a good friend" by the earlier definition.
  • Close friendship is measured by the usual definitions: completely comfortable to be around, no awkwardness or attempts to fill the silence, being there for them feels like an honor more than a burden, feelings of admiration and love whenever we're together.
 

MissMelissa

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estj - hang on, i have to put this link in a notepad in my dropbox folder.

intj - ok

estj - i have too many folders and files, i am losing track of it all

OMG, this is exactly me! I put *everything* in Evernote, I have hundreds of notes to keep track of all my information. I have found that I can't remember anything unless I write it down or otherwise save it somewhere. Yet I find it SO hard to organize them and to be able to quickly refer to some information that I've saved in the past. This drives me crazy.

I would love it if someone could come with an awesome organizational system to use, and then I would be more than happy to do the actual process of organizing it, but coming up with that initial idea is so hard for me.

The S is strong in me.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Why do you guys micromanage?
TBH I try not to. The way I try to manage people is to check in every once and a while and see how they're doing, especially if they have any questions. (I'm used to working with people who get tunnel-vision when they work, and who might not think to ask for help.)

If/when I do micromanage, it's because I don't trust the person to do every step correctly, and I feel like they might need my help at every step. I stop micromanaging as soon as I know that I don't need to.
 
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