Fidelia, speaking of that thread... allow me to quote you and address your ESTJ comments:
That makes sense. I suppose the reason why I do that with people is because that's what I do for myself when I have a serious issue that I have to deal with. I tell myself something like "Well, everybody has to go through this at some point", or "Sleep on it and you'll feel better tomorrow". So, what do you tell yourself to make yourself feel better in those situations, out of curiosity?Hey! I had never thought of actually explaining to someone that they needed to hear me out before saying anything. You just also offered something else tremendously useful about what you try to do to help when people are venting. The trying to balance out the negative with positive feels to me like the other person is saying that I am blowing things way out of proportion, that the other party actually was right and I'm being a whiner or that I need to just get over it instead of making such a big deal over things. Then it feels like instead of being able to run to my closest person for support, they are actually in opposition to me and contributing to my problem.
Hm. Because you're an INFJ, I'd say yes. Follow your instincts. But with other types, I'd probably say no, because there's the off-chance that they're more angry than sad, which would mean that they'd probably get a negative response from the ESTJ. And there's also the fact that, when I'm feeling down, I'd rather not be asked about it, except for by someone I trust, because opening up to people who are just acquaintances feels, for lack of a better word, weird. So it's kind of the opposite of what you said; while INFJs consider the ones who cheer them when they're down to be the best friends, ESTJs only want their best friends to cheer them up. Or at least, that's how it is with me.So, with an ESTJ, when you suspect something is wrong and they are just acting normal, what is the appropriate response? Back off or ask?
Someone needs to take all the ESTJ/INFJ couples aside and say to them: "INFJs, be clear that you're venting and don't want advice until you're done. ESTJs, don't interrupt, be supportive, and give hugs. That is all."Regarding your frustrations about your two ways of cheering people not being welcomed while INFJs vent: I'm most definitely sure that that was terribly for my ESTJ. I just didn't realize this. I figured he was annoyed at me for troubling him with something that I didn't seem to want help with, when what I was looking for was someone to hug me and say, "Talk all you like, I'm here and you're going to be alright". After I'm done venting, then I'd be open to the "Have you tried" and any other observations or ideas you have though.
That's such a chronic misconception with ESTJs. It's sad, really. But like so many other types, we hold different standards to ourselves than to others. I never think people are weak for needing to talk things out.He never went to me with stuff he was frustrated about and I felt shut out and like he thought I was weak and needy for talking about stuff to him.
That's totally like something I would do. And sometimes I do get frustrated with people for trying to fix stuff that they can't possibly fix. It's just like what we were talking about earlier - joking about your problems to make them seem like less of a big deal. Tried and true ESTJ defense mechanism.Publicly or socially he would observe the faults within the school and community environment around him. He was really just doing what I do when I vent, but it was so chronic and he almost seemed to derive great pleasure out of finding and pointing out the foibles of the people and the community we were working with that it seemed like he was being rude to them, chronically unproactive by not changing his situation, and felt I was stupid for trying to impact the environment around me because it couldn't be done. He later said that it was just his way of trying to confirm that his perceptions were valid and a way of handling the toxicity that he came into contact with every day.