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  1. #11
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    It's my world and you're just part of it.


  2. #12
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Babe .. I tried (and failed)
    But i will have a go at your theory.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eiddy View Post
    Aww Sas,

    I have to commend you on trying to rally the troops into an actual discussion. Could it be that we - in this neck of the woods (forum) - are more inclined to talk about ourselves, our thoughts about how we perceive the world, rather than try to objectively analyze it at a distance?

    So back to your analysis, is this for SJ and TJ's or for humans on the whole? *tells self stop asking questions* Sorry about that.. Erm, the theory of DNA as a complex structure and its inclusion in all living things. Does tell me that there must be a higher mastermind, if it is God, as most people are inclined to believe and in His (holy) books He talk about things of a more spiritual nature. Does this mean that spirits are also created with a similar structure.. Does wind have DNA??

    This is where i hit my first stumbling block. GOD. Show me proof he exists and then i could possibly believe. Noone can do this other than show me a book. *sigh*

    Could it be this is where the theory of evolution vs. God exists?

    If there were aliens, as some are inclined to believe, (I myself am not sure where I stand on this.) I would think that they would make themselves undisputedly known. On another note... It would be pure ignorance or could it be arrogance to think that they would want to come to destroy our race, after crossing that vast distance to just come so that they could study or destroy us.. Maybe? But, it's highly doubtful. *Starts to think about ants, crossing the ocean, to destroy or study the other ants* It would be more accurate to think that they would like to hold this world in their "back pocket" so to speak, as a source of minerals and/or energy.

    Why make themselves known if we are just an experiment. Our possibilities are endless (intervention always plays a part here). We have free choice to make of our lives as we choose. Imagine for a moment your a researcher, firstly all data is possibly corrupt to show in favour of a desired outcome so there is a flaw. You need people to participate. The list can be endless. Being a higher being (or alien lol) you can look down and view everything and see all outcomes and you haven't intervened at all. Free choice.
    Look just how many history books we have in existence and how many have unfortunately been detroyed. We like to know where we have come from. Could higher beings not possibly look at us with the same intrigue.


    Also our galaxy as we know it, is measured according to our measurements. If superior beings came from another solar system, galaxy or dimension suppose if we were measured by their scale and were considered of minute proportions or of a different DNA structure. Could we be of any real and lasting importance in their concept of reality or would it be of more benefit to search for more beneficial and superiorly intelligent beings. Since we can't even seem to make it out of our own solar system and our life span is considered of short duration and/or little value.

    Ok, i am not suggesting they are going to turn on us and destroy the human race (we are doing a pretty good job of that ourselves) but i suppose if you are at the top of the ladder, your always going to be looking down, i think anyway. If they are so advanced (and possibly not realising there are more intelligent beings out there), wouldn't make more sense to view us even from a distance and observe our behaviour.
    Now i have a kid who loves conspiracy theories so this is where i have been suckered in. We dont know we haven't been visited by 'something'. The governments of the world are not going to willing hand out this information as 1 - suddenly religion can be questioned and religion = money and power.
    2 - your going to have mass cult suicides going on.
    3 - Another form of control.
    4 - Could the governments really stop them from coming or if they did become hostile towards us, well what could we do? (being the inferior lot and all)


    Could it be of what meaning are we then, if only based each in or on our own realities as we see it?
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  3. #13
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I stopped subscribing to religions late last year. Too much bullshit involved in religions to actually believe in any of them. All of them have faults and can be proven wrong, so why consider any of them? I'll just focus on what makes me happy and go from there.


  4. #14
    Pronounced eye-ee-dee Eiddy's Avatar
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    It really does seem that there are more of us agnostics out there then ever before. Maybe back in history persons couldn't profess disbelief or they would have been burned at the stake... Funny how it was these religious persons professing faith to have done this.

    Aww Sas.. you did not fail, we failed you. United we stand, divided we fall. Puts on my mouse ears. LOL
    Johari / Nohari

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  5. #15

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    Personally I believe in God and creation of the Universe by him. I'm also quite religious to go with it. A lot of evolutionists think the idea of God is ridiculous but I feel the same way about the whole 'big bang theory' and evolution. I also think there is more proof out there of an intelligent being behind the creation of the universe and the human race than there is of some fish magically appearing and growing legs, etc. I've read that even a lot of scientists in the modern age are starting to discredit the theory of evolution.

    Though I will agree that religion is responsible for a large part of the suffering humans have gone through throughout history and there are flaws with almost every one out there.

  6. #16
    Pronounced eye-ee-dee Eiddy's Avatar
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    Aww Lighting rider.. I don't disbelieve in God, I disbelieve in man and his books professing to all be the "Truth" at the sole exclusion of the others. Everyone has a right to their own belief systems, its when it crosses over to the believe as I believe that I can't accept what is known as their "Truth". Agnostic and Atheist are worlds apart in some respects.. I consider myself an Agnostic Theist, so I have no arguements there.
    Johari / Nohari

    Enneagram 1w2/Lifepath 1/first zodiac sign Aries/first Chinese zodiac sign RAT/first born in my siblings of 3. Did I forget to mention first?

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I've picked myself up now .. We shall make a stand (even if it is amongst ourselves) lol


    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I stopped subscribing to religions late last year. Too much bullshit involved in religions to actually believe in any of them. All of them have faults and can be proven wrong, so why consider any of them? I'll just focus on what makes me happy and go from there.
    That's faith for you. I have always seen religion as another form of control. Doesn't the bible actually state somewhere that you shouldnt worship him in a place of worship. That symbols shouldn't be used in his name. etc etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eiddy View Post
    It really does seem that there are more of us agnostics out there then ever before. Maybe back in history persons couldn't profess disbelief or they would have been burned at the stake... Funny how it was these religious persons professing faith to have done this.
    Oh how times have changed ..


    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning_Rider View Post
    Personally I believe in God and creation of the Universe by him. I'm also quite religious to go with it. A lot of evolutionists think the idea of God is ridiculous but I feel the same way about the whole 'big bang theory' and evolution. I also think there is more proof out there of an intelligent being behind the creation of the universe and the human race than there is of some fish magically appearing and growing legs, etc. I've read that even a lot of scientists in the modern age are starting to discredit the theory of evolution.

    Though I will agree that religion is responsible for a large part of the suffering humans have gone through throughout history and there are flaws with almost every one out there.
    It is great that we are able to keep open minds about this. I think this is the biggest problem, trying to seperate religion and science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiddy View Post
    Aww Lighting rider.. I don't disbelieve in God, I disbelieve in man and his books professing to all be the "Truth" at the sole exclusion of the others. Everyone has a right to their own belief systems, its when it crosses over to the believe as I believe that I can't accept what is known as their "Truth". Agnostic and Atheist are worlds apart in some respects.. I consider myself an Agnostic Theist, so I have no arguements there.
    As i always say, each to their own. Although i don't believe in god, i perceive myself to be a spiritual person (or is this just new age jargon). I don't pray to god when i have a problem but i do ask out loud for help in times of need. I don't know who would be listening but i do believe we each have someone watching over us.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  8. #18

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    Lol, I wasn't pointing to anyone specifically or attacking anyone incase anyone got that idea... I was just sort of stating what I believe in (creation vs evolution). Of course I feel that everyone should have the right to believe in what they want to, humans do have free will after all, I think we should all be allowed to use it how we want to. I also agree that those who use religion as a means to control others or who force their beliefs upon others have the wrong idea. As I said, free will is to be used... The decision is up to each individual.

    And yeah, while I am religious I also by no means discredit science. I think the two can go together nicely, even if at times there are places where some branches of science can conflict with religion and cause controversies (abortion is possible because of science for instance, also stem cells etc). But yeah, I think science is great as well, it is the reason we have many of things we have today and I think it's fascinating that we've come as far as we have. I just don't agree with every aspect of science and some scientists/theorists theories, like evolution for example...

  9. #19
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning_Rider View Post
    Lol, I wasn't pointing to anyone specifically or attacking anyone incase anyone got that idea... I was just sort of stating what I believe in (creation vs evolution). Of course I feel that everyone should have the right to believe in what they want to, humans do have free will after all, I think we should all be allowed to use it how we want to. I also agree that those who use religion as a means to control others or who force their beliefs upon others have the wrong idea. As I said, free will is to be used... The decision is up to each individual.

    And yeah, while I am religious I also by no means discredit science. I think the two can go together nicely, even if at times there are places where some branches of science can conflict with religion and cause controversies (abortion is possible because of science for instance, also stem cells etc). But yeah, I think science is great as well, it is the reason we have many of things we have today and I think it's fascinating that we've come as far as we have. I just don't agree with every aspect of science and some scientists/theorists theories, like evolution for example...
    An SJ will never see anyone pointing or attacking .. Apparantly we are just to damn nice. Not that i felt you was but hey, if you wanted to and if its your opinion then you are entitled to it, so sod what anybody else thinks. .

    I was also under the impression we were meant to be rather closed minded as we rarely shift our opinions on whatever given subject. We are clearly showing everyone here that we are infact open minded enough to have a rational debate without stepping on anyone's toes.

    Woooo Hooo SJ's ..
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  10. #20
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Why did I get up and open the door?

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