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  1. #31
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Isn't Paul McCartney a ISTJ? Or am I making that up...

    Anyway I feel like Si would be magical with melody.
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  2. #32
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Oh, you know, my brother is an obsessed Van Halen fan... I know a lot about VH from him. Eddie is a complete and utter control freak...I mean, scarily so. Also seems more likely for IxxJ. I could see him as ISTJ, actually.
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  3. #33
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Isn't Paul McCartney a ISTJ? Or am I making that up...

    Anyway I feel like Si would be magical with melody.
    The last time I checked, I think Macca was listed as an ISFP.


    I'm debating if Martin Fry from ABC is an ISTJ, but could either be ISFJ or ESFJ:

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  4. #34
    Senior Member ScottJames's Avatar
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    Paul McCartney is most certainly an extravert. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRsPs...eature=related I would say ESFP.

    Any type can be a control freak for different reasons. Fi primaries (like Sting) like to use their own judging process and can often find it difficult to relinquish to someone else. Fi primary entrepreneurs and business owners often have difficulty outsourcing a lot of things because, unless they have a particularly mature Fi function they find it difficult to resist handling things like customer service. IxxJ doesn't equal control freak. The most pronounced examples of control freaks I know of are ExxJs. ENFJ (such as Oprah) in particular when it comes to things that will reflect on them, such as how they keep their home. ENTJs (such as Steve Jobs) in particular when it comes to leadership.

    Also, I would type Stewart Copeland as ENTP, not ESTP. ENTPs (Weird Al, Ray Manzarek) have a certain nerdiness about them that ESTPs (Axl Rose, David Lee Roth, Mick Jagger) rarely have.

  5. #35
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I know IxxJ doesn't equal control freak (I'm not one particularly, and even if anyone has ever questioned me being INFJ they have not questioned me being IxxJ), but I have a REALLY hard time seeing ISFP in that role.

    I am no cognitive function expert but I have a really hard time seeing Sting as an Fi-dom. He doesn't give off anything like the kind of random exuberant energy I associate with xxFP. He comes across as contained and controlled, even in his most cutting-loose moments with the Police. Both, he controls himself and presents his own image in a very specific way, and he likes to control his environment.

    Sting is also quite a precise lyricist and even his most emotional songs have a certain restraint. This is perhaps his Englishness in part (he's quite the English gentleman). But he's inwardly intense, even with a slightly scary/nasty edge at times. I'd associate that far more with ISTJ or INFJ. An ISFP is more likely to have a genuine laid-backness, at least in any experience I've had.

    I suppose Stewart could be ENTP, as well. I think he's definitely ExTP. And yeah, David Lee Roth is like the ultimate example of an ESTP.
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  6. #36
    The Iron Giant
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    Yeah, I think Eddie Van Halen and Sting look enough like ISTJs where it's plausible. They both have that arrogance about them (the disconnect from the object tends to give us unfounded confidence in our perceptions), that deep seriousness. I've seen Eddie on stage and of course on video a few times, and every smile and posture looks totally forced. Not only do I think he could be an ISTJ, I think he's pretty unhealthy. He's highly technical, and amazingly skilled due to tons of practice. I don't think improvisation is a strength of his either as a result of his lack of development.

    Eddie's at left, with the beard, for those who are not familiar. Not sure why Wolfgang's not there, maybe it was past his bedtime.



    Sting also has that typical ISTJ seriousness and as I said, arrogance. He may be better off than Eddie, but I think he's pretty by-the-book in his performances. He's got a great voice though. Looking at this video though, I think this needs reflection. He's a bit too warm/charming... but then, I've been told the same, maybe he's a six also. He's got that... vigilance going on.



    Thoughts?

  7. #37
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    my view is that any type is capable of doing anything, including ISTJs being risk-taking innovators, ENFPs being content with routine desk jobs, etc etc.
    I think too many people conclude that if they see someone following the rules and looking ok about it, they must be ISTJ, or similar conclusions. Whereas it could be someone of another type who is happy to be conventional in that aspect or certain aspects of their life, but who is more "conventionally" their type in other respects.
    Your whole post was awesome, and I wanted to add to this. Enlightenment is often described as finding peace and happiness with the present moment. If this is the case, then any enlightened person of any type can be content with the rules, or content with a desk job.

    I wish I could work at a desk...

  8. #38
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottJames View Post
    I absolutely agree with you that type doesn't define what's possible. As a general rule, I don't believe anything more than 99%. Nothing I say I'm claiming to be absolute truth. That being said, behavior and other manifestations can't be separated from the cognitive functions that create them.
    I know -- which is why I brought up Ne as a creative force. And @Stephen was right to bring up the possibility that Eddie Van Halen is a not-very-developed ISTJ, because that would mean that he was an ISTJ using Si as a tool to bring what he considers (Fi) to be top-quality music, to the world. Being an innovator without much aid from N!

    I wasn't sure if you were going to reply that way -- "oh, nothing is certain, I thought that was a given" -- but there it is. The only way I can think to reply to that, is that you yourself said that you'd be shocked if there were ANY ISTJs who were well-known innovative musicians, because of the limiting tendencies of Si. However, I wouldn't be shocked, because, like I was saying, the MBTI is not a foolproof tool of distinguishing the innovators who take risks (anyone besides SJs) from the non-innovators who don't take risks (SJs). You say that you know ISTJs, but it's worth re-reading @SilkRoad 's first few posts on this thread (including the one that Stephen quoted above), to make sure that you aren't suffering from some confirmation bias.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member ScottJames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    Yeah, I think Eddie Van Halen and Sting look enough like ISTJs where it's plausible. They both have that arrogance about them (the disconnect from the object tends to give us unfounded confidence in our perceptions), that deep seriousness. I've seen Eddie on stage and of course on video a few times, and every smile and posture looks totally forced. Not only do I think he could be an ISTJ, I think he's pretty unhealthy. He's highly technical, and amazingly skilled due to tons of practice. I don't think improvisation is a strength of his either as a result of his lack of development.

    Eddie's at left, with the beard, for those who are not familiar. Not sure why Wolfgang's not there, maybe it was past his bedtime.



    Sting also has that typical ISTJ seriousness and as I said, arrogance. He may be better off than Eddie, but I think he's pretty by-the-book in his performances. He's got a great voice though. Looking at this video though, I think this needs reflection. He's a bit too warm/charming... but then, I've been told the same, maybe he's a six also. He's got that... vigilance going on.



    Thoughts?
    I would not say that arrogance is an ISTJ trait. Aside from that I'll let you guys debate amongst yourselves whether or not Sting or EVH are ISTJs. Have fun!

  10. #40
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottJames View Post
    I would not say that arrogance is an ISTJ trait. Aside from that I'll let you guys debate amongst yourselves whether or not Sting or EVH are ISTJs. Have fun!
    We're pretty much settled on it (I think), and I'm pretty sure most of the debate was us against you. Sounds like you didn't actually want to have a debate, though. Which is fine by me as long as you keep in mind what we've been saying about ISTJs. You're new here and it would be a shame if you became one of those closed-minded Ns who thinks of SJs as operating on a lower cognitive level.

    See you round the forum, and may you see the debate through to the end, next time around.
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