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  1. #1
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Default ESTJs and emotional outbursts

    I started this thread because most basic type descriptions of ESTJs, when discussing feelings, mostly refer to the typical ESTJ lack of awareness of the feelings of others. They don't really mention the feelings of ESTJs. We do have a sensitive side! Seriously! We just internalize so much that it all tends to come out at once.

    (I also started this thread to make sure that I'm not alone in this issue, since, because I am friends with absolutely NO ESTJs irl, I definitely feel alone in it.)

    These are the best (though still minimal) descriptions of ESTJ outbursts that I could find:

    "The ESTJ under stress may become emotional and withdrawn and catastrophize greatly..."
    - Marriage Attributes Compatibility Test ESTJ!!

    "Under extreme stress... the ESTJ's shadow may appear... Example characteristics are: ...having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed..."
    - ESTJ Personality Types

    "Specific suggestions (to ESTJs): ...If you become angry, walk away. When you allow anger to control your actions, you lose, and quite possibly somebody else loses too. After you have dealt with your anger and calmed down, continue with what you were doing..."
    - ESTJ Personal Growth

    "(When stressed,) ESTJs can become extremely sensitive to rejection, or ruminate about past mistakes."
    - Myers-Briggs: INFPs, ESTJs and Stress; Strong Interest: Types and Retirement; FIRO-B: Work Environment - Inclusion (this one REALLY struck me, just so you all know... in my opinion, it's the best example of the oft-hidden sensitive side of ESTJs.)

    "What can cause this stress for ESTJs? First and foremost, having their authority challenged. Many ESTJs struggle to deal with emotional outbursts, particularly their own. If an ESTJ believes someone has overlooked an obvious "fact" and is being illogical, they will likely feel stress. Sometimes ESTJs cannot contain their anger inside and can lash out at others..."
    - see previous link

    Even though a bunch of these make ESTJ outbursts seem like, you know, "HULK SMASH PUNY PERSON!", as an ESTJ woman, it's been less like full-on manly anger, and more like EXTREME frustration, to the point that I get choked up (though I REFUSE to shed tears in public, with people I don't trust).

    But anyways... a few questions for all of you, and you don't have to answer all of them:
    1. What's your experience with ESTJs and emotional outbursts?
    2. Plenty of other types internalize their feelings, but they don't have outbursts like the ones mentioned above. What makes ESTJs do this?
    3. Any other types that have similar experience with emotion confusion/frustration?
    4. If any other ESTJs on this site (any of the fifteen of us, lol) notice this thread... what's your experience? How are you with handling your emotions?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #2
    Te > Fi > Ni Shaula's Avatar
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    Story Time!
    I remember one time I was sitting next to an ESTJ (who's like a second father to me) and we got to talking. (It was just the two of us.) I'm not sure what started the conversation but somehow it winded up with me venting about my fears about life. It was an unusal conversation because instead of giving advice/lectures like he would normally do, he emphasized with my fears about death. That's when I noticed that he looked very worried. He briefly mentioned that his recent visit to the doctor's office didn't go so well and alluded to having regrets and thoughts of hopelessness. So I decided to hug him, durring which he repeated almost as if to himself, "I'm so glad you came [to visit]." When we parted he gave me a sincere look and said with a laugh, "You have no idea how much I needed that." I don't think I'll ever forget that. It was truely a one of a kind moment.

    Now to answer your questions....

    1. What's your experience with ESTJs and emotional outbursts?
    I agree, I think this describes a stressed out ESTJ the best: ESTJs can become extremely sensitive to rejection, or ruminate about past mistakes. From what I've seen, ESTJ outbursts tend to be angry first then followed by more subtely by the deeper emotions which at times can be hard to detect if one isn't paying attention. ESTJs seem to be very good at hiding their true feelings which can unfortunately make them look like jerks.

    2. Plenty of other types internalize their feelings, but they don't have outbursts like the ones mentioned above. What makes ESTJs do this?
    I'm not sure but I've seen very unhealthy ISTJs act like this too.

    3. Any other types that have similar experience with emotion confusion/frustration?
    I think all the types do but in their own ways of course.
    Is not to be held accuntable for peeling errors.

  3. #3
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    ESTJ's i think are just as succeptable to emotional outbursts as ISFJ's. In real life i have never really met a healthy ESTJ. I find them to be extremely intolerant of others. Stubborn...very stubborn. They're very prone to rejection. I have an ESTJ friend who i forgot to invite to a game of golf. He whinged about it for a week. Perhaps i'm wrong, but is the stereotypical abusive father/husband usually ESTJ/ESTP? It's just a pattern i've noticed. I don't think i could deal with one as a parent.

    However i have an ISTJ teacher at school. Very rules oriented, but very fair, realistic, and makes every thing very clear as to her expectations. She's also very tolerant of what we want to learn vs. what's on the curriculum.

    Challenging an ESTJ's authority is like talking to wood in my experience, however irrational the ESTJ's argument. Just DON'T do it. It WILL NOT work. But all in all, they are great friends after a while, and are very willing to help you out in any way. If you can get them to do something that demonstrates their knowledge in a subject, they're likely to be a happy ESTJ i find.

    Oh and do ESTJ's have any problems with drinking? I know an ESTJ who 80% of the time will end up in tears after a few drinks and complain about how bad his life is. Or is this just emotional unhealthiness?

  4. #4
    Senior Member aguanile's Avatar
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    No offense to other ESTJs, but the one I know is probably the coldest, most unfeeling person that I have ever known.

  5. #5
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Mine BAWLED UNCONTROLLABLY when I went to college for my first semester, and was the most clingy person ever for the whole time until I came home. Wanted me to call multiple times a day, blah blah blah. I thought it was just a personal fear of losing me to some hussy, but she grew out of it, which was nice. Took me like 15 minutes outside trying to get into my car when I was leaving, and all I could think to do was hug and pat her on the back [I know, I'm the worst when it comes to consolation, I should be legally prevented from doing it]. She was also very accusatory during this time whenever there was an inconsistency in my schedule.

    Also, she makes terrible, TERRIBLE decisions when she "feels bad" about something, and at times is just too nice to certain people. Except for me, oddly enough [kidding, teehee].



  6. #6
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    "Although ESTjs may appear in control of their emotions they periodically allow flashes of fury to break through."
    - Logical-Sensory Extratim - ESTj (The Director)

    "Under extreme stress... the ESTJ's shadow may appear... Example characteristics are: ...having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed..."
    - ESTJ Personality Types
    Socionics doesn't connect to the mbti, Socionics ESTJ doesn't equal MBTI ESTJ, also Socionics Se doesn't equal MBTI Se, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    But anyways... a few questions for all of you, and you don't have to answer all of them:
    1. What's your experience with ESTJs and emotional outbursts?
    2. Plenty of other types internalize their feelings, but they don't have outbursts like the ones mentioned above. What makes ESTJs do this?
    3. Any other types that have similar experience with emotion confusion/frustration?
    4. If any other ESTJs on this site (any of the fifteen of us, lol) notice this thread... what's your experience? How are you with handling your emotions?
    1) In the other sections, talking about other types, I hear the same question being asked for different types. I don't think this is ESTJ specific, though you might be able to eliminate types that wouldn't have such outburts, there are more than just ESTJs who have similar outburts.

    2) It can't be more than half that internalize their feelings (meaning the other half don't) that's how MBTI is divided. More stressful jobs, bigger crashes, your local experiences, too many reasons.

    3) type in emotional outbursts and you'll hit about 5 to 6 other types being mentioned. I'm assuming most experiences confustin/frustration

    4) I'm not an ESTJ

  7. #7
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    Socionics doesn't connect to the mbti, Socionics ESTJ doesn't equal MBTI ESTJ, also Socionics Se doesn't equal MBTI Se, etc.
    Really? They seem very similar. ...I dunno. I guess I'll delete the socionics one, since I have so many quotes up there anyway.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #8
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    My mom is an ESTJ. When she's having an emotional outburst, it's invariably linked to something she really hates/fears that she can't fix. Like sometimes my being sick upsets her and it can build on her until it just sort of blows up. Mom doesn't deal with her emotional health very well. Sis and I are like service dogs - we can tell when something's going on. Sis is better at it than I am.

    Mom is very deeply affected by the suffering of others. She's only blind to her own feelings sometimes. ESTJs are strong people, but things can and do hurt them very much.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #9
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I started this thread because most basic type descriptions of ESTJs, when discussing feelings, mostly refer to the typical ESTJ lack of awareness of the feelings of others. They don't really mention the feelings of ESTJs. We do have a sensitive side! Seriously! We just internalize so much that it all tends to come out at once.

    (I also started this thread to make sure that I'm not alone in this issue, since, because I am friends with absolutely NO ESTJs irl, I definitely feel alone in it.)

    These are the best (though still minimal) descriptions of ESTJ outbursts that I could find:

    "The ESTJ under stress may become emotional and withdrawn and catastrophize greatly..."
    - Marriage Attributes Compatibility Test ESTJ!!

    "Under extreme stress... the ESTJ's shadow may appear... Example characteristics are: ...having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed..."
    - ESTJ Personality Types

    "Specific suggestions (to ESTJs): ...If you become angry, walk away. When you allow anger to control your actions, you lose, and quite possibly somebody else loses too. After you have dealt with your anger and calmed down, continue with what you were doing..."
    - ESTJ Personal Growth

    "(When stressed,) ESTJs can become extremely sensitive to rejection, or ruminate about past mistakes."
    - Myers-Briggs: INFPs, ESTJs and Stress; Strong Interest: Types and Retirement; FIRO-B: Work Environment - Inclusion (this one REALLY struck me, just so you all know... in my opinion, it's the best example of the oft-hidden sensitive side of ESTJs.)

    "What can cause this stress for ESTJs? First and foremost, having their authority challenged. Many ESTJs struggle to deal with emotional outbursts, particularly their own. If an ESTJ believes someone has overlooked an obvious "fact" and is being illogical, they will likely feel stress. Sometimes ESTJs cannot contain their anger inside and can lash out at others..."
    - see previous link

    Even though a bunch of these make ESTJ outbursts seem like, you know, "HULK SMASH PUNY PERSON!", as an ESTJ woman, it's been less like full-on manly anger, and more like EXTREME frustration, to the point that I get choked up (though I REFUSE to shed tears in public, with people I don't trust).

    But anyways... a few questions for all of you, and you don't have to answer all of them:
    1. What's your experience with ESTJs and emotional outbursts?
    2. Plenty of other types internalize their feelings, but they don't have outbursts like the ones mentioned above. What makes ESTJs do this?
    3. Any other types that have similar experience with emotion confusion/frustration?
    4. If any other ESTJs on this site (any of the fifteen of us, lol) notice this thread... what's your experience? How are you with handling your emotions?
    First of all, let me thank you for this insight into the ESTJ type. I think you may actually be the #1 rarest type on this forum, and I've been wanting to hear more first-person explanation from this point of view because I've had fairly bipolar relationships with all three of the ESTJs that I know (one a former boss, one a girl I used to date, and one my older sister.)

    1) Lots. The worst part about it is that I can usually tell it's well-intentioned: you guys really want to maintain control of the situation because you feel an overwhelming responsibility to others, and when I stop to think about that, I really appreciate the sentiment. On the other hand, when you get upset, you are hands down the #1 hardest type to work with. That "walk away" advice is absolutely vital!

    Like I said my relationship with my sister has been so bipolar over the years. She expends a lot of effort trying to mother me/offer unwanted advice, openly corrects my manners in public, once refused to let me out of her car until I could explain my precise plans for the entire evening (I was 21 years old), etc...and I know that fundamentally she wants to help--I know that deep down she cares more than almost anyone, and she'd never be able to live with herself if something happened to me and she somehow felt responsible. That's not the problem; the thing is, try to remember that your advice is not always desired, no matter how badly it seems needed. At some point, you must let others learn the hard way.

    2) I suspect that ESTJs are so focused on always being the rational, calm, and capable leader that they expend enormous effort forcing emotion out of most of their dealings with others. When they start to get emotional, they usually seem to cope with it by getting even more commanding, I guess to try and "straighten up" and get back into logical coordinator mode. Once they've become upset, it's hard to tell when they truly believe they're rationally correct about something and when they're on an emotional platform--since they express both the same way.

    3) Of course, everybody experiences that to some degree. The bottling up/exploding thing is probably common for any type that sees reason to ignore/repress its emotions frequently, which probably includes lots of T types.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #10
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    In response to cogdecree (mentioned) and everyone else (implied), sorry about question #3. I just feel like ESTJ bottling/exploding might be a little more... I dunno... severe(?) or traumatizing for the person that's bottling/exploding(?) than other types' outbursts. I figure that's because of the inferior Fi. If you see what I was getting at, how do you think I should rephrase the question?

    Related question: is ESTJ the most emotion-stupid of the types? If not (and I'm guessing not), which type gets that award?

    edit: Also, sorry I misspelled your user name, cogdecree. I fixed it.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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