[ESTJ] ESTJs and emotional outbursts

[EJCC]

The ESTJs I know don't tend to talk about negative things in their lives though unless they are trivial or the person is on the verge of a breakdown (maybe not even then if you aren't the right person). Maybe it's just not having anyone close enough to feel completely safe with. When internal and interpersonal problems come together at once, I could only imagine the kind of pressure that would build up with nowhere to go.

Wow. When you phrase it THAT way...
Yeah, if something really serious is going on in my life, I probably won't tell you unless
1. you're a close friend, or
2. you ask me.
Seriously, if you just ask me what's wrong, I'll probably tell you... if you really seem like you care, and if I like you.

What form do ESTJ explosions take?

Depends on the ESTJ, probably, but anger and a raised voice is usually there. With female ESTJs, there might be more getting choked up and less yelling.

Does the ESTJ feel undignified after the explosion, or just mystified?

Embarrassed, if it's in public (ESPECIALLY if the conversation in which the explosion took place was with someone outside of the inner circle - I absolutely HATE it when that happens!!!), and, if it's in private, well... naked. Exposed. Vulnerable. Once those feelings wear off, then you get confused. So, to answer your question... both. Just in different stages.

I can't let something rest in my mind until I have figured out why I even have a certain feeling, let alone an explosion at someone. Once I've figured out what caused it I feel like I can control whatever happens or form a viable plan of action. I think this is why closure matters so much to me and why I have a compulsive need to know what the other person is thinking and I always assume the worst. It's like closure in plans matters to you, how you may assume the worst about unknown future situations and you need to gather all information possible to feel secure. Too bad we couldn't shake us all up. together.

It looks like, as Anne (from Anne of Green Gables) might say, we are kindred spirits

 

[Fidelia]

What about when other people have an emotional outburst on you? If I had to guess I think maybe it would be do whatever has to be done to get through it at the time and then pretend like it never happened, but I might be wrong...Does one outburst ever bring about another? Generally it seems to me like it wouldn't except in very extreme cases.

 

[EJCC]

I think you're right that it wouldn't happen often. Usually my reaction to someone else's emotional outburst is either 1. bewilderment, 2. becoming very serious and logical (abnormally so) to try and balance it out, or 3. righteous protectiveness (if it's a friend getting upset about something). If it was someone I didn't know, I would be more likely to, as you said, pretend like it never happened. If it was a friend having a tough time, I MIGHT go up to them later and very somberly say "If there's anything I can do, let me know right away." (But occasion for this doesn't pop up very often.)
The only time (that I can think of right now) that I would react to an emotional outburst with one of my own would be if the person out-bursting was being unfair to me/my cause/my friends/family/etc.

 

[INTPatricia]

Mine BAWLED UNCONTROLLABLY when I went to college for my first semester, and was the most clingy person ever for the whole time until I came home. Wanted me to call multiple times a day, blah blah blah. I thought it was just a personal fear of losing me to some hussy, but she grew out of it, which was nice. Took me like 15 minutes outside trying to get into my car when I was leaving, and all I could think to do was hug and pat her on the back [I know, I'm the worst when it comes to consolation, I should be legally prevented from doing it]. She was also very accusatory during this time whenever there was an inconsistency in my schedule.

Also, she makes terrible, TERRIBLE decisions when she "feels bad" about something, and at times is just too nice to certain people. Except for me, oddly enough [kidding, teehee].

Yeah, INTPs can bring out the big baby in the ESTJ...it is kind of cute. They know we are safe.

 

[EJCC]

Wow, I had forgotten about that story. Blows my mind. I haven't bawled uncontrollably in front of anyone except for my mother in a very long time.

I heart INTPs for being so steady. Much more so than ESTJs. (Although that makes THEIR outbursts even scarier, but that's besides the point.)

 

[JocktheMotie]

Wow, I had forgotten about that story. Blows my mind. I haven't bawled uncontrollably in front of anyone except for my mother in a very long time.

I heart INTPs for being so steady. Much more so than ESTJs. (Although that makes THEIR outbursts even scarier, but that's besides the point.)

Haha, sometimes I think mine thinks I am too steady. She'll tell me something in such a way that I know I am supposed to be clearly appalled and outraged at something she's about to tell me, and then when she does... I kinda just stare back.

Can't count the number of times in the past week alone I've said, "Okay...so what?" Only to be followed up with, "Well don't you think blah blah blah!?"

She's so funny.

 

[EJCC]

Haha, sometimes I think mine thinks I am too steady. She'll tell me something in such a way that I know I am supposed to be clearly appalled and outraged at something she's about to tell me, and then when she does... I kinda just stare back.

Can't count the number of times in the past week alone I've said, "Okay...so what?" Only to be followed up with, "Well don't you think blah blah blah!?"

She's so funny.

Lol! Love the juxtaposition there.
But I can see how that would frustrate her Is it really that you don't care? If not, what causes you to react like that? Because I know INTPs that consistently react appropriately to certain things, and can even react passionately about certain issues.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Lol! Love the juxtaposition there.
But I can see how that would frustrate her Is it really that you don't care? If not, what causes you to react like that? Because I know INTPs that consistently react appropriately to certain things, and can even react passionately about certain issues.

I'm not really sure about if it's that I don't care or not. I've given it some thought, however people sometimes need to tell me why something is outrageous or appaling behavior I do react appropriately. Some transgressions that she sees as a big deal, I don't really catch on to immediately so she has to explain why they're "omigosh" worthy.

Mostly these are social issues, but it's not everything. Most of the time I do think I react appropriately. However other times I just don't see where she's going with a particular complaint, especially if it's not something I can do anything about.

 

[INTJ123]

Really? They seem very similar. ...I dunno. I guess I'll delete the socionics one, since I have so many quotes up there anyway.

Actually... from what I remember the mbti and socionics extroverts are all the same. Socionics swtiches the last letter for introverts, thus I get an INTP in socionics and INTJ in MBTI but I honestly think socionics is not as reliable as much as mbti.


ESTJs... I know this one, for a long time now. He has a painfully obvious dysfunctional relationship with this XNFP, and much of their problems probably does stem from authority issues. It's really weird but he likes to command her to make coffee or tea, when he doesn't even really want it, it's almost as if he does it to remind her that he's boss. It comes accross as very chauvinistic, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a female ESTJ doing that to her significant other. What is it about authority that appeals to ESTJs so much? It's like you guys get off on feeling superior to others.

 

[Fidelia]

Yeah, what's that all about? My ESTJ used to occasionally get me to help him out with something and then nitpick and tell me the right way to do it each step of the way. What infuriated me even more was when he was doing something on his own, he would even do it the way I had been, so it wasn't that he was just particular that there was one "right" way to do it. Is this about feeling that you know more than other people? I did explain that you only get to say one thing and then after that people will feel rejected and frustrated and quit helping. He briefly made an effort but you could tell it was killing him not to say something!

 

[EJCC]

It's really weird but he likes to command her to make coffee or tea, when he doesn't even really want it, it's almost as if he does it to remind her that he's boss. It comes accross as very chauvinistic, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a female ESTJ doing that to her significant other. What is it about authority that appeals to ESTJs so much? It's like you guys get off on feeling superior to others.

I do not do anything like this. I do not command other people to do petty things that I don't actually want done. The idea that I might do this kind of offends me. I think that particular ESTJ is unhealthy, and very very insecure. He needs to remind himself of his own authority to make himself feel better. We aren't all like this.

Yeah, what's that all about? My ESTJ used to occasionally get me to help him out with something and then nitpick and tell me the right way to do it each step of the way. What infuriated me even more was when he was doing something on his own, he would even do it the way I had been, so it wasn't that he was just particular that there was one "right" way to do it. Is this about feeling that you know more than other people? I did explain that you only get to say one thing and then after that people will feel rejected and frustrated and quit helping. He briefly made an effort but you could tell it was killing him not to say something!

I think that many ESTJs who do this sort of thing come across as arrogant because, by default, and unless proven otherwise, they trust themselves above all others. He just didn't trust you to do the job right as much as he trusted himself. He probably wished that he was doing it himself. (The version of the Myers-Briggs test that I took first had a T/F question: "You always have to try things with your own hands". I'm 99% sure that all ESTJs who do stuff like what's in this anecdote answered "true".)
I do this sort of thing sometimes, although not as much as I used to, because it really pisses me off when people do it to ME.

 

[Fidelia]

So why would you solicit help from someone that you think is incompetent? And why would you interact for an extended period of time with someone who is not competent enough to chop up chicken or hang up t-shirts correctly? This creates considerable resentment!

 

[EJCC]

So why would you solicit help from someone that you think is incompetent?

I wouldn't! In all the occasions where I've bossed someone around from the sidelines, it's been because they won't let me do the job myself, and I want to do whatever I can.

And why would you interact for an extended period of time with someone who is not competent enough to chop up chicken or hang up t-shirts correctly? This creates considerable resentment!

I feel guilty now...
......
I'm not sure how to answer this question. 'Cause I never criticize EVERYTHING that a person does. I would HOPE that with my close friends and family, I think highly enough of them that I wouldn't question their every move. It's just when I don't trust them with a certain thing. Like my dad and the TV remote. He is so bad with it, and it drives me up the wall to watch him try to use it! It's like hearing someone mispronounce a word, you know? It's hard to take.
But to answer your (presumably hypothetical) question, it's because they are only incompetent in a few areas. And everyone's incompetent at SOMETHING. For instance, I am terrible at watercolor painting.
But I suppose this is a veiled way of asking about YOUR ESTJ and his actions? Well, all I can say is that he's probably insecure, and that simply amplified his ESTJ-backseat-driving tendencies to an abnormally high level.

 

[Fidelia]

Thank you EJCC. Don't feel guilty!

I would have called it insecurity too at first, but then wondered if maybe I was overlooking something. I believe you're right...

 

[wildcat]

I started this thread because most basic type descriptions of ESTJs, when discussing feelings, mostly refer to the typical ESTJ lack of awareness of the feelings of others. They don't really mention the feelings of ESTJs. We do have a sensitive side! Seriously! We just internalize so much that it all tends to come out at once.

(I also started this thread to make sure that I'm not alone in this issue, since, because I am friends with absolutely NO ESTJs irl, I definitely feel alone in it.)

These are the best (though still minimal) descriptions of ESTJ outbursts that I could find:

"The ESTJ under stress may become emotional and withdrawn and catastrophize greatly..."
- Marriage Attributes Compatibility Test ESTJ!!

"Under extreme stress... the ESTJ's shadow may appear... Example characteristics are: ...having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed..."
- ESTJ Personality Types

"Specific suggestions (to ESTJs): ...If you become angry, walk away. When you allow anger to control your actions, you lose, and quite possibly somebody else loses too. After you have dealt with your anger and calmed down, continue with what you were doing..."
- ESTJ Personal Growth

"(When stressed,) ESTJs can become extremely sensitive to rejection, or ruminate about past mistakes."
- Myers-Briggs: INFPs, ESTJs and Stress; Strong Interest: Types and Retirement; FIRO-B: Work Environment - Inclusion (this one REALLY struck me, just so you all know... in my opinion, it's the best example of the oft-hidden sensitive side of ESTJs.)

"What can cause this stress for ESTJs? First and foremost, having their authority challenged. Many ESTJs struggle to deal with emotional outbursts, particularly their own. If an ESTJ believes someone has overlooked an obvious "fact" and is being illogical, they will likely feel stress. Sometimes ESTJs cannot contain their anger inside and can lash out at others..."
- see previous link

Even though a bunch of these make ESTJ outbursts seem like, you know, "HULK SMASH PUNY PERSON!", as an ESTJ woman, it's been less like full-on manly anger, and more like EXTREME frustration, to the point that I get choked up (though I REFUSE to shed tears in public, with people I don't trust).

But anyways... a few questions for all of you, and you don't have to answer all of them:
1. What's your experience with ESTJs and emotional outbursts?
2. Plenty of other types internalize their feelings, but they don't have outbursts like the ones mentioned above. What makes ESTJs do this?
3. Any other types that have similar experience with emotion confusion/frustration?
4. If any other ESTJs on this site (any of the fifteen of us, lol) notice this thread... what's your experience? How are you with handling your emotions?

A fact has no author.

 

[EJCC]

True... but one might think that something is a fact when it actually isn't.

...which is really embarrassing when people call you on it.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Wow, I had forgotten about that story. Blows my mind. I haven't bawled uncontrollably in front of anyone except for my mother in a very long time.

I heart INTPs for being so steady. Much more so than ESTJs. (Although that makes THEIR outbursts even scarier, but that's besides the point.)

I very much like to hear you expound on your statement above, please

 

[Dailtone]

Hello ! My husband is an ESTJ , I'm an ENFP.

Yes, the emotional outbursts are scaaaaaaary to me. I understand it's usually because of a build up of stress and feeling loss of control, but it still makes me feel terrible because something I've done wrong usually becomes the trigger.

It's always verbal, but just the sheer white-hot contempt in the way it's delivered to lil ol' NF me used to be enough to get me in tears ( which only made things worse btw, until his steam had run it's course ).

Now I know the warning signs and try to diffuse things by listening to him vent and making extra sure that little things around the house don't irritate him, hot meals ready etc ( argh I sound like such a 50's wife and I'm not, I'm terribly unorganized but try my best as a freelance stay at home parent ).

If he says something that hits way WAY below the belt, I gather every bit of venom I can muster and show him I have a backbone and can give as good as whatever he's got ( just that I don't usually because thats not how I roll when I'M angry )

I love him to bits for being such a hero. He takes his duties as husband and dad seriously (definitely a textbook example of a dad from the 50's), and has always treated his in-laws ( my family ) with great courtesy and generosity.

He definitely has a kooky and zany side to him that I think only I and our toddler daughter ever get to see , which is really precious.

He always takes care to dress in a presentable , but not too flashy , manner, but loves dressing up for a fancy occasion. He's a guys guy and enjoys being at work and socializing. Definitely thinks highly of himself, but not a braggart or show off

 

[Soar337]

I'm just wondering, are emotional outbursts an INFP thing too?

 

[4375]

I don't really have any emotional outbursts. I have been told by an ex-girlfriend to stop yelling at her. I honestly wasn't yelling at her. I was just passionate about what I was talking about. Ever since then I try to monitor my loud passionate opinions. Try to keep them on a quiter level.