It's really weird but he likes to command her to make coffee or tea, when he doesn't even really want it, it's almost as if he does it to remind her that he's boss. It comes accross as very chauvinistic, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a female ESTJ doing that to her significant other. What is it about authority that appeals to ESTJs so much? It's like you guys get off on feeling superior to others.
I do not do anything like this. I do not command other people to do petty things that I don't actually want done. The idea that I might do this kind of offends me. I think that particular ESTJ is unhealthy, and very very insecure. He needs to remind himself of his own authority to make himself feel better. We aren't all like this.
Originally Posted by fidelia
Yeah, what's that all about? My ESTJ used to occasionally get me to help him out with something and then nitpick and tell me the right way to do it each step of the way. What infuriated me even more was when he was doing something on his own, he would even do it the way I had been, so it wasn't that he was just particular that there was one "right" way to do it. Is this about feeling that you know more than other people? I did explain that you only get to say one thing and then after that people will feel rejected and frustrated and quit helping. He briefly made an effort but you could tell it was killing him not to say something!
I think that many ESTJs who do this sort of thing come across as arrogant because, by default, and unless proven otherwise, they trust themselves above all others. He just didn't trust you to do the job right as much as he trusted himself. He probably wished that he was doing it himself. (The version of the Myers-Briggs test that I took first had a T/F question: "You always have to try things with your own hands". I'm 99% sure that all ESTJs who do stuff like what's in this anecdote answered "true".)
I do this sort of thing sometimes, although not as much as I used to, because it really pisses me off when people do it to ME.
So why would you solicit help from someone that you think is incompetent? And why would you interact for an extended period of time with someone who is not competent enough to chop up chicken or hang up t-shirts correctly? This creates considerable resentment!
So why would you solicit help from someone that you think is incompetent?
I wouldn't! In all the occasions where I've bossed someone around from the sidelines, it's been because they won't let me do the job myself, and I want to do whatever I can.
And why would you interact for an extended period of time with someone who is not competent enough to chop up chicken or hang up t-shirts correctly? This creates considerable resentment!
I feel guilty now...
I'm not sure how to answer this question. 'Cause I never criticize EVERYTHING that a person does. I would HOPE that with my close friends and family, I think highly enough of them that I wouldn't question their every move. It's just when I don't trust them with a certain thing. Like my dad and the TV remote. He is so bad with it, and it drives me up the wall to watch him try to use it! It's like hearing someone mispronounce a word, you know? It's hard to take.
But to answer your (presumably hypothetical) question, it's because they are only incompetent in a few areas. And everyone's incompetent at SOMETHING. For instance, I am terrible at watercolor painting.
But I suppose this is a veiled way of asking about YOUR ESTJ and his actions? Well, all I can say is that he's probably insecure, and that simply amplified his ESTJ-backseat-driving tendencies to an abnormally high level.
I started this thread because most basic type descriptions of ESTJs, when discussing feelings, mostly refer to the typical ESTJ lack of awareness of the feelings of others. They don't really mention the feelings of ESTJs. We do have a sensitive side! Seriously! We just internalize so much that it all tends to come out at once.
(I also started this thread to make sure that I'm not alone in this issue, since, because I am friends with absolutely NO ESTJs irl, I definitely feel alone in it.)
These are the best (though still minimal) descriptions of ESTJ outbursts that I could find:
"Under extreme stress... the ESTJ's shadow may appear... Example characteristics are: ...having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed..."
- ESTJ Personality Types
"Specific suggestions (to ESTJs): ...If you become angry, walk away. When you allow anger to control your actions, you lose, and quite possibly somebody else loses too. After you have dealt with your anger and calmed down, continue with what you were doing..."
- ESTJ Personal Growth
"What can cause this stress for ESTJs? First and foremost, having their authority challenged. Many ESTJs struggle to deal with emotional outbursts, particularly their own. If an ESTJ believes someone has overlooked an obvious "fact" and is being illogical, they will likely feel stress. Sometimes ESTJs cannot contain their anger inside and can lash out at others..."
- see previous link
Even though a bunch of these make ESTJ outbursts seem like, you know, "HULK SMASH PUNY PERSON!", as an ESTJ woman, it's been less like full-on manly anger, and more like EXTREME frustration, to the point that I get choked up (though I REFUSE to shed tears in public, with people I don't trust).
But anyways... a few questions for all of you, and you don't have to answer all of them:
1. What's your experience with ESTJs and emotional outbursts?
2. Plenty of other types internalize their feelings, but they don't have outbursts like the ones mentioned above. What makes ESTJs do this?
3. Any other types that have similar experience with emotion confusion/frustration?
4. If any other ESTJs on this site (any of the fifteen of us, lol) notice this thread... what's your experience? How are you with handling your emotions?
Yes, the emotional outbursts are scaaaaaaary to me. I understand it's usually because of a build up of stress and feeling loss of control, but it still makes me feel terrible because something I've done wrong usually becomes the trigger.
It's always verbal, but just the sheer white-hot contempt in the way it's delivered to lil ol' NF me used to be enough to get me in tears ( which only made things worse btw, until his steam had run it's course ).
Now I know the warning signs and try to diffuse things by listening to him vent and making extra sure that little things around the house don't irritate him, hot meals ready etc ( argh I sound like such a 50's wife and I'm not, I'm terribly unorganized but try my best as a freelance stay at home parent ).
If he says something that hits way WAY below the belt, I gather every bit of venom I can muster and show him I have a backbone and can give as good as whatever he's got ( just that I don't usually because thats not how I roll when I'M angry )
I love him to bits for being such a hero. He takes his duties as husband and dad seriously (definitely a textbook example of a dad from the 50's), and has always treated his in-laws ( my family ) with great courtesy and generosity.
He definitely has a kooky and zany side to him that I think only I and our toddler daughter ever get to see , which is really precious.
He always takes care to dress in a presentable , but not too flashy , manner, but loves dressing up for a fancy occasion. He's a guys guy and enjoys being at work and socializing. Definitely thinks highly of himself, but not a braggart or show off
I don't really have any emotional outbursts. I have been told by an ex-girlfriend to stop yelling at her. I honestly wasn't yelling at her. I was just passionate about what I was talking about. Ever since then I try to monitor my loud passionate opinions. Try to keep them on a quiter level.