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  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Default Are SJs afraid of change?

    Watching and reading many posts made by SJ I have come to conclusion that SJs have this fear but for many cases the word fear is probably too strong. Especially if we are talking about very small things.

    So, why you try to avod changes ?
    I presume that it has something to do with Si.


    Nothing of this is actually unknown. But in what I am actually interested in is how big this changes have to be that you sense them.
    I am talking about two cases.
    1.Changes in arrangement of objects.
    2.Changes in the ways how system(s) work.


    What kind of changes you find annoying?
    How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?
    How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?



    Also I am interested in what SJs think about idea of rearranging the entire system and what SJs think about crashing it completly? (So that the better one can be formed).

    Feel free to take term "system" in the way you find the most suitable for explaining your interests.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Watching and reading many posts made by SJ I have come to conclusion that SJs have this fear but for many cases the word fear is probably too strong. Especially if we are talking about very small things.

    So, why you try to avod changes ?
    I presume that it has something to do with Si.

    I don't really and yet I do. It might have something to do with Si. Change is neither good or bad in some sense. It's the results the change brings about.


    Nothing of this is actually unknown. But in what I am actually interested in is how big this changes have to be that you sense them.
    I am talking about two cases.
    1.Changes in arrangement of objects.
    2.Changes in the ways how system(s) work.


    What kind of changes you find annoying?

    The stupid ones. The illogical and illegitimate ones. Change is fine, doesn't bug me. I can and do adapt. I can and am constantly changing and growing, improving upon what was their previously. Why change something if you can't make it better? Why put yourself further back than what you already are?

    How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?

    Never.

    How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?

    It can be rather nice. Changes that lead us entirely into the unknown and in the opposite direction from where we want to go (or a roundabout route) are stressful. Like, my college/life plans. If they fall through I have no more back-ups. I have no other options that I want. So, if they fall through, I'm lost.

    Also I am interested in what SJs think about idea of rearranging the entire system and what SJs think about crashing it completly? (So that the better one can be formed).

    Feel free to take term "system" in the way you find the most suitable for explaining your interests.
    It honestly depends on the system. I think rearranging the system is much more applicable in today's age, but there are points when maybe something more needs to be done.
    - Caleb

    "I am what I need to be..."

    "Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity."

  3. #3
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    So, why you try to avod changes ?
    It's uncomfortable. Change makes us uncomfortable because we don't know what's coming next and it makes us feel unprepared. Changes in physical surroundings cause confusion and readjustment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I am talking about two cases.
    1.Changes in arrangement of objects.
    If I walk into work and something even small has been moved, I immediately start looking around to figure out who has been at my desk and why.

    My mom loves rearranging furniture and it drives me crazy. My brother-in-law laughs about how the furniture looks different every time he comes to visit. My living space can stay the same for years and I'm perfectly happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    2.Changes in the ways how system(s) work.
    I always balk at the change from the beginning, even if it's a good one. It takes me awhile to adjust to the thought of doing things differently. Working with N's and P's, the changes are often good ones and I'm glad later they were made, but the process stresses me out.

    Last summer I was in a job that I didn't like, and out of the blue one day was offered my dream job. I almost turned it down on the spot. Thankfully I thought it over for awhile (longer than I needed to) and accepted, and I'm so happy I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What kind of changes you find annoying?
    Changes in behavior, changes in schedule, changes in routine, changes in plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?
    It's not something I worry about unless a situation comes up where I'm forced to be flexible. In those situations, I worry about it quite a bit until things are concrete and in order again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?
    It helps a little, though it helps more if I can visualize the process. It's not so much the end result that scares me as the process of getting there. I like to know how I am going to get there, and things are not calm until I have a plan for making it work.

    As far as life changes are concerned, I just need to have an idea of how I will arrive at the next stage. I need to know what I need to do and how I need to prepare myself along the way to be ready for the change or else I'm scared to death.

    I hope that helps. SJ is my least favorite of personality traits and I would change those letters in a heartbeat if I could. I really try to let my P friends/family teach me to relax, but it doesn't come naturally at all.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  4. #4
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Yep. The common link between all 4 is basically Si.

    Si builds systems upon collected data. To destroy that system would be mentally exhuasting as it's basically feels like continously pressing the reset button. The resistance to change is much worse if we don't have alternative systems or models to fall back on. (Which may happen if someone focuses way too much on something) Ultimately these models are what I use to navigate my life.

    Does Ni not experience something similar? The desire to have a stable internal reality?

    It's the reason that Ne is so difficult to deal with. It seems natural for dominant user to conjure up many different paths and flip between them, there's certainly a heavier sense of chaos.

    At the end of the day I won't go against change if I know it's for the better. However I'd like time to prepare for it, absorb the system and see how it can be incorporated into my life. This manifests itself best when I'm playing MMORPGs. I have a strong tendancy to read pages upon pages of information even before I start the game. Partly because I don't want to go down the wrong path, and partly because I want what's best way to navigate.

  5. #5
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrldisquiethere View Post


    It's uncomfortable. Change makes us uncomfortable because we don't know what's coming next and it makes us feel unprepared.


    I hope that helps. SJ is my least favorite of personality traits and I would change those letters in a heartbeat if I could. I really try to let my P friends/family teach me to relax, but it doesn't come naturally at all.

    I will give you my opinion about this. If you feel/think this way you S much bigger problem for you then your J. Since N can control/help J to quite extensive degree. Since N can see the outcomes.
    Plus, because of N you stop to notice those changes (like in the furniture example) so your J will not have so much problems with that. Since you don't see the problem anymore.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I will give you my opinion about this. If you feel/think this way you S much bigger problem for you then your J. Since N can control/help J to quite extensive degree. Since N can see the outcomes.
    Plus, because of N you stop to notice those changes (like in the furniture example) so your J will not have so much problems with that. Since you don't see the problem anymore.
    Hm. That might be the explanation for reason Ni doesn't get as easily stressed out as Si does. The ability to predict the future by extention without all the data. I'm a lost bird without that data and changes usually involve having to locate everything again.

  7. #7
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Arbitrary change can bother me, if I am happy with the way things have been going. About once a year, my mom used to rearrange the den with the big TV and couches and all, and there was rarely a rhyme or reason to it.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #8
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Yep. The common link between all 4 is basically Si.

    Si builds systems upon collected data. To destroy that system would be mentally exhuasting as it's basically continously pressing the reset button, it's much much worse if we don't have systems or models to fall back on. These models are what I use to navigate my life. Does Ni not experience something similar? The desire to have a stable internal reality?

    It's also the reason that Ne is so difficult to deal with. It seems natural for dominant user to conjure up many different paths and flip between them, there's certainly a heavier sense of chaos.

    At the end of the day I won't go against change if I know it's for the better, but I'd like time to prepare for it, absorb the system and see how it can be incorporated into my life.

    This manifests itself when I'm playing MMORPGs, I have a strong tendancy to read pages upon pages of information even before I start the game. This is because I want what's best and I don't want to be confused.
    Yes, Ni likes to deal with the systems also. But Ni deals with them on a very different way. From the perspective of Si Ni likes to destroy systems.
    Since Ni does not work in a way to find comfortable/easy solution. What Ni wants is to rearrange entire system so that is more efficient and ready for the next step of improvement.
    Ni understands that the only system that is stabile is the system that is changing and upgrading all the time.
    In short Ni tends to wipe out everything you are used to in your life. Since system must be improved.

  9. #9
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Watching and reading many posts made by SJ I have come to conclusion that SJs have this fear but for many cases the word fear is probably too strong. Especially if we are talking about very small things.

    So, why you try to avoid changes ?
    I presume that it has something to do with Si
    I guess because usually it's a pain to deal with. Either I won't know what's going on, or there will be people who are even more clueless than I am that will be asking all kinds of questions. Also, change usually beings on a reaction of other changes, so really, it's never a simple or clean process. It's not that I'm necessarily against it, because there are changes that certainly need to happen, but regardless, it's almost always a pain to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Nothing of this is actually unknown. But in what I am actually interested in is how big this changes have to be that you sense them.
    I am talking about two cases.
    1. Changes in arrangement of objects.
    I can be really sensitive to this. I'm not the kind of person that misplaces or loses things, and I find it annoying when people touch my things. My brother constantly goes around the house and "cleans up" (as he likes to call it). What he's really doing is moving things around so that I can't find them again. I find this incredibly annoying. I understand my system, and it works perfectly for me, so just leave it alone.

    Also, I have a somewhat photographic memory, so I remember visual stimuluses pretty well. It comes naturally, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    2. Changes in the ways how system(s) work.
    This depends. I'm fully willing to embrace positive changes, but you're gonna have to prove to me that it's a positive change first. An example of this is Microsoft Office 2003 being upgraded to the 2007 version. The change, in my mind, was totally useless. It still does all the same stuff (does it even have any merit-worthy upgrades or did they just arrange things for fun?), but the problem is that no one is around to tell you the great new stuff it supposedly does. You're just supposed to figure it out on your own or read a manual. Yeah, I simply don't care that much...just give me the 2003 version and I'll be more than happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    What kind of changes you find annoying?
    When things are changed simply for the sake of changing, or any change that means things are going to be made more ambiguous than they were before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How often you are afraid that you will not be flexibile enough?
    Pretty much never. Change is a part of life...just roll with it. Usually there is always someone who is more clueless than you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    How calming for you is that you can visualize the actual change/problem?
    This certainly helps make the change more comfortable because it doesn't involve such a leap of faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Also I am interested in what SJs think about idea of rearranging the entire system and what SJs think about crashing it completly? (So that the better one can be formed).
    This totally depends. I think that for the most part, completely scrapping a system that is already in place is usually unnecessary. "Don't throw out the baby with bath water" type of thinking. Some parts usually have merit. Keep the good, dump the bad, and build upon the good points. I really can't think of an instance in my life where I have totally gotten rid of a system. I'm not a radical person, and I try not to live my life in extremes.

  10. #10
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Does Ni not experience something similar? The desire to have a stable internal reality?
    Ni does require a stable internal reality, but that reality is not the same thing as what Si has. Ni is not concrete, it sees and needs patterns. Stability here doesn't mean no change in the environment but that the system must fit the internal pattern. Which means if change is consistent with the pattern, Ni dominants are okay with change.

    I get stressed out when I need to switch from one pattern into another. For example I'm in science but I've always enjoyed web design. It took me several years to work up the guts to try making the switch. I had no way of judging my suitability for design, not sure if I am/will be good enough to making a living out of it. Too many variables and unknowns for Ni to make any reliable guesses.

    It's the reason that Ne is so difficult to deal with. It seems natural for dominant user to conjure up many different paths and flip between them, there's certainly a heavier sense of chaos.
    The Ne dominants don't see it as that... chaotic. They can flip back and forth and consider all the paths because they don't center themselves on one spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Yes, Ni likes to deal with the systems also. But Ni deals with them on a very different way. From the perspective of Si Ni likes to destroy systems.
    Since Ni does not work in a way to find comfortable/easy solution. What Ni wants is to rearrange entire system so that is more efficient and ready for the next step of improvement.
    Ni understands that the only system that is stabile is the system that is changing and upgrading all the time.
    In short Ni tends to wipe out everything you are used to in your life. Since system must be improved.
    I wouldn't go so far as to say Ni wipes everything out... because if the overall pattern doesn't exist Ni can't function.

    Ni takes a starting point and modify it as it moves along. Change is constant but gradual and the new is always based on the previous version. This is different from Ne's way of clearing the board and starting from scratch every time.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

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