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  1. #31
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    Change is necessary, it leads to growth.

    Changing for no clear purpose, however, with no definable outcome other than to just "shake things up" seems counter-productive. Obivously, no one is going to shake up the major things in life (success generally isn't boring enough to fall into this category) but even the little things - I wear the same color shirt (white), the same color tie (red) and the same color pants (dark grey) to work every day (even on our Friday "casual" day, which I posted in another thread). When we go to our favorite steakhouse, I order the same prime rib cooked the same way with the same wine and Grand Mariner for a nightcap. I lease the same car every three years. I just don't see (the need to be) different as being a reason to change. I can imagine that doing the same thing day in and day out would be extremely frustrating to some.

    What some see as boring and frustrating I see as the way things should be. For me, change isn't to be feared, or resisted, or in anyway rejected. It does, however, (as posted earlier) need to be empirical.

    Just my two cents...
    ...doesn't work or play well with others...

  2. #32
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    I'm not afraid of change. I like change, especially when something's worn out or boring. Of course the new change must be good too. Can't just be a change for the sake of a change.

  3. #33
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I wouldn't say that SJs are more afraid of the unknown than other types, but that they have less of a grasp and handle on the way future events could play out than non-SJ types do. Someone with future orientated thinking has possibilities and scenarios more weighed out in their mind, so it's not necessarily that they fear the unknown less, but that the unknown is a little more known to them.

    I think that's probably inaccurate. SJs can have a better grasp and handle on the way future events play out because they can have a better handle on what is most likely to happen, based on previous experience.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    pffft...... are chumps afraid of my fist?!

    (A: yes)

  5. #35
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I dated an SJ once and things were going great until we threw a joint party at his house. We moved all the furniture to one of the bedrooms. The next morning, he got called into work very early and I stayed behind and slept. When I woke I thought he would be so tired when he came back, so to be nice, I decided to clean the place and put everything back. Big big big mistake.

    I am not a sensor. I never noticed where the stupid little end tables went. Or what side the rocking chair was on. (In my house, the furniture is so fluid. I push the sofa out of the way to clean and just leave it in that new place all the time. It doesn't matter because it's still there...) Anyway, I just did the best I could, putting things where I thought they were before. When he came home, I was all excited and cooking for him. He took one look at the place and BLEW UP at me. I have never been screamed at like that before or since.

    Being the aggressive woman that I am, my first instinct is always to strike back, but in this case I was so taken aback - I just sat there stunned while he screamed that I was trying to control him and that I was usurping his life, or some such bullcrap. That I had no right to come into his house and change the way he lives. Was what I did really that horrible?

  6. #36
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Yes. They refuse to pay with anything other than paper money.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    The way SJs describe their reaction to change is interesting. It appears that we both dislike arbitrary changes, although the kind of changes that bother us are somewhat different.

    With SJs, it seems that the most important things to them are the ones they want to keep the same (and keeping those things the same is thus what they focus on), but they don't mind changes in the less important ones.

    With me (although I don't know about other NJs), the most important things to me are the ones I'm actively trying to change to bring into alignment with an ideal I've come up with. However, I tend to insist on keeping the things I don't care about or focus on as much the same so that they don't become an unexpected variable that I have to put up with in implementing the changes that matter to me.

    I guess another thing is that I only like change that I create. I get really frustrated if other people change things for me, but I like to make my own changes.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    With SJs, it seems that the most important things to them are the ones they want to keep the same (and keeping those things the same is thus what they focus on), but they don't mind changes in the less important ones.

    With me (although I don't know about other NJs), the most important things to me are the ones I'm actively trying to change to bring into alignment with an ideal I've come up with. However, I tend to insist on keeping the things I don't care about or focus on as much the same so that they don't become an unexpected variable that I have to put up with in implementing the changes that matter to me.
    That certainly is an interesting way of putting it. I'd say it's fairly accurate for myself.

    What's the end point of this ideal scenario? What happens when you achieve it, if possible? Do you move onto the next goal immediantly? Can this not produce an element of restlessness? Forever chasing after a goal. It reminds me of the idea, it's impossible to attain happiness if you keep searching for it.

    I'm starting to think that SJs are really just comfort based creatures. Humans.

  9. #39
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I dated an SJ once and things were going great until we threw a joint party at his house. We moved all the furniture to one of the bedrooms. The next morning, he got called into work very early and I stayed behind and slept. When I woke I thought he would be so tired when he came back, so to be nice, I decided to clean the place and put everything back. Big big big mistake.

    I am not a sensor. I never noticed where the stupid little end tables went. Or what side the rocking chair was on. (In my house, the furniture is so fluid. I push the sofa out of the way to clean and just leave it in that new place all the time. It doesn't matter because it's still there...) Anyway, I just did the best I could, putting things where I thought they were before. When he came home, I was all excited and cooking for him. He took one look at the place and BLEW UP at me. I have never been screamed at like that before or since.

    Being the aggressive woman that I am, my first instinct is always to strike back, but in this case I was so taken aback - I just sat there stunned while he screamed that I was trying to control him and that I was usurping his life, or some such bullcrap. That I had no right to come into his house and change the way he lives. Was what I did really that horrible?
    Maybe he had a bad day at work. Or maybe he has OCD.

  10. #40
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    What's the end point of this ideal scenario? What happens when you achieve it, if possible? Do you move onto the next goal immediantly? Can this not produce an element of restlessness? Forever chasing after a goal. It reminds me of the idea, it's impossible to attain happiness if you keep searching for it.
    Well, we rarely do achieve it. When we do, we revel in it for a while, but we end up finding something else. We're kind of restless, indeed, but it's a much more long-term kind of restlessness than you see in SPs.

    It's hard to put into words, exactly...

    Here's what I imagine as a more negative kind of Ni, first:

    YouTube - Sonic Adventure 2 Music - Throw It All Away (Shadow's Theme)

    Then, here's a more typical/neutral kind:

    YouTube - Tragic Anthem

    This could be construed as a more positive kind of Ni, although it could be seen as related to Ti, Fi, or Ne as well:

    YouTube - Gundam Wing Endless Waltz - Love and Hatred
    I'm starting to think that SJs are really just comfort based creatures. Humans.
    I think I like most of the ones who are like that. I suppose I generally like SJs as long as they aren't trying to preserve something I'm trying to change. It's the ones who try to artificially drag the past into the present who I usually find myself in conflict with. Mostly because I'm doing the opposite, trying to pull the future into the present. Those are usually very extreme people, though, and there aren't many of them.

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