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  1. #1
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Default Thriving off of conflict, debates, and/or proving your point?

    STJ's would you consider this a trait that you poses? In more layman terms wanting to prove a certain point in some sort of informal debate?

    For example In my first class (international politics), at the end of each session (not enough time in class to talk), I would spend the next 20 minutes bouncing ideas, debating a few, listening to points offered (this is done making me slightly late for my next class). I also research more on specific topics and bring back the topic to discuss after class each day.

    My second class (criminological theories, arriving slightly late) allows discussions in class (mistake on her part). About half of the class is spend debating or critiquing the teacher. The teacher herself is not much older than me, but is extremely bias on which theories she likes and or doesn't like, and I end up playing devil's advocate siding on the opposite side on whatever side she picks on a theory.

    Anyways, it doesnít have to be this intense (if you have better stories, more intense than this please, for the sake of greater entertainment share them) but if the general idea of conflict or proving a point, gives some sort of entertainment for you... Iím curious if this is commonly shared with STJís.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    You're wrong.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  3. #3
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    The ISTJs I know actually hate conflict.

    If it's an impersonal affair then it's not much of a problem, the ISTJs I know usually only speak up when there is a major error.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  4. #4
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    You're wrong.
    Well if that is the case, I have the appropriate sig then.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    The ISTJs I know actually hate conflict.
    I don't like debating if I don't know what I'm talking about, and it usually starts by me critiquing someone else who puts forth a subjective idea (thus more often than not teachers are the ones who feel my wrath, always though, in a professional way).

  5. #5
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Read the edit, it's not always.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    The ISTJs I know actually hate conflict.
    Wow, thank you. Finally someone who realizes the truth.

    See one of my blog posts for confirmation.
    - Caleb

    "I am what I need to be..."

    "Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity."

  7. #7
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    Not me.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  8. #8
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    Wow, thank you. Finally someone who realizes the truth.

    See one of my blog posts for confirmation.
    To be more acurate, it's more of a love/hate kind of relationship, sometimes frusterating but many times enjoyable, and as I said its mostly with subjective material or topics with no 100% right answer (politics, fiscal systems, social values, etc).

    But, if this is truly the case for a majority of STJ's, then I question if either A) if I am one, or B) if I am a unique one.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    I have a habit of testing people's logic. I might take up an impersonal role, and question their beliefs and values in different situations, testing how long they'll support their own idea, and if they can see their own faults (if there's any).

    An example:

    Me and my ISFJ were discussing about the Earth Hour (the thing in which you turned all lights off for an hour), and she wanted to participate (being Fe ). Well, I started questioning her reasoning, why was it important to participate.

    Me: "So, why you wanna join in?"
    ISFJ: "Because I care about the environment."
    Me: "Sure you do, but is this the right way? I mean, what are you going to do when it's all dark and you can't see anything? Light a candle?"
    ISFJ: "Yeah, it will be moody. "
    Me: "Sure it will be, but do you think it's environmental? I mean, you want to shutdown the sources of light and replace them with new sources of light, that also have to be manufactured, packed in plastic, freighted in stores, brought home and then burned, which will burn oxygen and produce carbon dioxide. I mean, is it really more efficient to change the source of lightning just for an hour?"
    ISFJ: "Uh... I don't know... but I think the idea is more important."
    Me: "Okay, let's turn off the lights then. "
    ISFJ: "Yeah, but we'll be at friends' party by then.. I hope they would let us participate the Earth Hour."
    Me: "Of course they will... I'll make 'em. "

    (And they did, after I asked them to.)

    Moral of the story? I test people, even though I would agree with them. I just want to see their reasoning to be able to trust them. It's Extroverted Thinking at work.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  10. #10
    Senior Member ArbiterDewey's Avatar
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    Contesting bullshit I enjoy, but I don't actively search out for conflict. When I was very religious/anti-religious I found I that I enjoyed questioning Christians on their beliefs as to make them aware that if they don't know what they believe, why wear the mantle of anything ignorantly. Also making things logical is a big point I try to emphasize.

    On another note, if I'm able to be convinced that I'm wrong (which is no simple task sometimes) I will acknowledge my wrongness and apologize if necessary. Ignorantly carrying on as if correct is pointless, esp. if it's a major discrepancy. I do have a tendency to force weak willed people over to my side of an argument even if it contradicts their original point, however.
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
    --Isaac Asimov, Salvor Hardin in "Foundation"

    Nothing is worse than active ignorance.
    --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
    --Isaac Asimov

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