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  1. #11
    Senior Member Eagle's Avatar
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    Yeah, in many ways it is a mix. I do think our standards of ourselves though are more important to us than others and that sometimes we just need to let go.
    - Caleb

    "I am what I need to be..."

    "Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity."

  2. #12
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I usually set high standards on things, continue through with it, and then later on, I find out that my standards were too high for what I was doing, and I overworked myself. I end up thinking, "That's it? That was underwhelming." Like, I was writing a paper for my computer class. I probably spent about 15-20 hours working on it. I did a research paper in my English class last semester that had a TON of requirements, so naturally I set the standards of the computer class research paper as high as the English one. I just kept criticizing everything in it, and thought, "This has to be perfect."

    I went to a writing center to get someone to critique it, and the guy there tells me, "The teacher mostly just wants to make sure you know how to do all this formatting in Word." I was like, fuck. I spent all that time worrying about my content, technical errors, formatting, and everything.

    We just set the standards so high because of our combination of functions. Being an S makes us look for things that are immediately measurable. Having Te to guide us in the external world automatically makes us set rules, standards, and guidelines for doing everything. Combine both of those and it's pretty hard for us to go outside of our normal boundaries.

    However, I'd say I tend to care what other people think about half the time. I get mad at myself for it, because I feel like I should have the willpower to go by my own standards. It's more like, I look at everyone else as a guideline for how things are being done, and then adjust accordingly. Is that the SJ way? It kind of leads back to what I've read about Introverts that we're so fixated on ourselves that we can't guide ourselves in the external world without an external reference point.


  3. #13
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    From my experience with my ex ISTJ, he not only cared about what other people thought of him, but he would enforce changes on anyone who surrounded him that he thought reflected badly on him in the eyes of the community.

    His reputation was his life, mind you he wasn't very law abiding, infact he was the total opposite, however I scratch that down to him believing that only the laws of religion were to be followed, and if you weren't in that religion then you were a fair target for crime.

    Anyway this meant that even living against the law he was well thought of within the community.

    If his mother thought I wasn't towing the line, then she could easily sway him to punish me.

    People thought I was too tall for him, these thoughts then began to reflect in his behaviour.

    Basically it didn't matter how minor and stupid the thoughts off other people were, they would still affect him enough to make insane changes.

    Not sure how true this is across the board, that's just my experience.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    Odd. Hm, with my ISTJ, I would say not really. It is more about him upholding his own standards. In fact, I think he said something to me like, "You can't just trust everyone. I am just myself and if they don't like what they see, then that's too bad." He doesn't really try to get anyone to like him or pursue relationships. He just waits for them to come to him, and they do. It's like a built-in filter.

    It's really funny to me that as an ENFP, you would write that of an ISTJ. I was just thinking how I am that way! I want people I like to like me and I care about what they think way too much. And, thinking about this only drives me crazy. Not sure how to shut it off. Probably not possible.


  5. #15
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    it looks that way to me...very high standards for themselves and others that reflect on them.

    edit...you're right rachelinpa...we care too but it's a different set of standards i believe.

    edit again...ha! just saw what barbarella wrote too! yep...not just themselves but you too.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #16
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    no

    they are more "straight" in their behavior and are responsible and dutiful, ("i keep my word!") for example (and like to be seen as such), but those are also standards for themselves. we each have different strengths we like to display for others and certain attributes we like upheld.

    on the other hand, i think guardians (sj's) would be more concerned with being seen as "pillars of the community" and such. but we all care about the opinions of others - it's a human thing.

  7. #17
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    no

    they are more "straight" in their behavior and are responsible and dutiful, ("i keep my word!") for example (and like to be seen as such), but those are also standards for themselves. we each have different strengths we like to display for others and certain attributes we like upheld.

    on the other hand, i think guardians (sj's) would be more concerned with being seen as "pillars of the community" and such. but we all care about the opinions of others - it's a human thing.
    A pillar of the community? I've been wondering about that need for an organization to belong to for an ISTJ. It just seems like lately I'm realizing that I have this inner need to have some organization to belong to to dedicate my time. I do best dedicating a lot of time to one thing. Maybe that's why ISTJs turn into workaholics? The work fulfills their sense of duty? I keep wanting to have a job to dedicate myself to, but people are like, you can't focus your life on your job. I guess it's more like, I'd be better off working like two jobs just to keep myself busy, and I'd likely end up making more money than I need.


  8. #18
    Senior Member Amira's Avatar
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    I'd agree with what the others said about my standards almost always being *too* high for myself; although, I believe it's not completely associated with type. As far as other people's opinions, I want people to respect me and think of me as a nice person. The respect part comes first, I wouldn't want to be a nice pushover/nice lazy person/nice dope. For getting along in social situations I do tend to pay a LOT of attention to what people might be thinking, partly as a survival mechanism - not a natural people person! For making life decisions, I take very little account about what others think, except those closest to me.

  9. #19
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    A pillar of the community? I've been wondering about that need for an organization to belong to for an ISTJ. It just seems like lately I'm realizing that I have this inner need to have some organization to belong to to dedicate my time. I do best dedicating a lot of time to one thing. Maybe that's why ISTJs turn into workaholics? The work fulfills their sense of duty? I keep wanting to have a job to dedicate myself to, but people are like, you can't focus your life on your job. I guess it's more like, I'd be better off working like two jobs just to keep myself busy, and I'd likely end up making more money than I need.
    you are channeling my ex's (istj) spirit. forsake society! come with me and exploreeee! i promise we won't get lost enough that we can't find our way back if we need to. (maybe) how's your friend google doing?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I usually set high standards on things, continue through with it, and then later on, I find out that my standards were too high for what I was doing, and I overworked myself. I end up thinking, "That's it? That was underwhelming." Like, I was writing a paper for my computer class. I probably spent about 15-20 hours working on it. I did a research paper in my English class last semester that had a TON of requirements, so naturally I set the standards of the computer class research paper as high as the English one. I just kept criticizing everything in it, and thought, "This has to be perfect."

    I went to a writing center to get someone to critique it, and the guy there tells me, "The teacher mostly just wants to make sure you know how to do all this formatting in Word." I was like, fuck. I spent all that time worrying about my content, technical errors, formatting, and everything.

    We just set the standards so high because of our combination of functions. Being an S makes us look for things that are immediately measurable. Having Te to guide us in the external world automatically makes us set rules, standards, and guidelines for doing everything. Combine both of those and it's pretty hard for us to go outside of our normal boundaries.

    However, I'd say I tend to care what other people think about half the time. I get mad at myself for it, because I feel like I should have the willpower to go by my own standards. It's more like, I look at everyone else as a guideline for how things are being done, and then adjust accordingly. Is that the SJ way? It kind of leads back to what I've read about Introverts that we're so fixated on ourselves that we can't guide ourselves in the external world without an external reference point.
    +1
    I know exactly what you mean about overworking. I did it this week in fact, with a telephone interview for a job. I wasn't even that bothered about the job (it was some financial thing) but I wanted to see how far I'd get (got through 2 stages, so wasn't too bad). I prepped so much for the interview, reading business news in depth for a week beforehand, spending a day going through answers to possible interview questions etc. It was all basically because I didn't want to seem a fool in the interview, and I would never *not* do my best for anything. It turned out they just wanted to know things like my working style and how I worked in a team blahdiblah. I didn't get it, I think I was too honest, but I wasn't going to lie.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rachelinpa View Post
    Odd. Hm, with my ISTJ, I would say not really. It is more about him upholding his own standards. In fact, I think he said something to me like, "You can't just trust everyone. I am just myself and if they don't like what they see, then that's too bad." He doesn't really try to get anyone to like him or pursue relationships. He just waits for them to come to him, and they do. It's like a built-in filter.
    Yeah that's like me. As a child I tried to please people but a lot of people weren't exactly friendly to me (to put it mildly), so I came to the conclusion that I'd do very well by myself, thank you very much. As such, like I've said in another thread, I let people come to me and that's how I make friends. Oddly, people do indeed try and get to know me. That way, I know they're good people.

    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    A pillar of the community? I've been wondering about that need for an organization to belong to for an ISTJ. It just seems like lately I'm realizing that I have this inner need to have some organization to belong to to dedicate my time. I do best dedicating a lot of time to one thing. Maybe that's why ISTJs turn into workaholics? The work fulfills their sense of duty? I keep wanting to have a job to dedicate myself to, but people are like, you can't focus your life on your job. I guess it's more like, I'd be better off working like two jobs just to keep myself busy, and I'd likely end up making more money than I need.
    I need to get a job when I graduate and just the thought of being unemployed more than a month gets me so depressed. I'll actually take anything I can get, which I'm sure many graduates wouldn't. Being independent and earning my own money thrills me. I already can't wait to get into work because I'm feeling that my academic studies are kind of pointless in this world of recession.
    As for belonging to organisations, most of my closest friends I met through my membership of a political student group. Obviously a lot are of the same political slant as me, but many are also people I've met from the opposing political groups. I just like to know that I'm doing something for the community/country. Way before I even knew about this MBTI stuff I'd already realised that I always want to be doing something that helped the world go round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    ^ Agreed with Eagle. We're usually our own worst critic, so other people are usually trying to be congratulatory or positive when we are wallowing in our own self-loathing/pity. I really only care about what those who are close to me think -- people who know me and who I know will tell me the truth...even if it hurts.

    In a nut shell, if I know I am doing/trying my best, then really, there is no more I can do. You either have to accept it or leave it. ISTJs have a very realistic and critical view of themselves, so the opinions of strangers really don't matter. I can take it as a grain of salt, but like Eagle said, my own perspective is what's most important simply because my standard is 99% of the time higher than anybody else's.
    +1

    So basically, I care to some extent. I want to be seen as the trustworthy, loyal light of stability in this mad world, someone who is solid and stoic. At the same time, if people dislike me, that's their problem and I really don't care. I don't need people, which is why I'm selective of the people I'm close to. I mean, when someone tells me I'm intelligent/passionate about what I believe in/have good dress sense etc. etc., obviously it makes me happy.
    On the other hand, I'm living in a perpetual state of negativity about myself because I am so self-critical, like the others have said. Nothing I do is ever good enough, I could have always done more, I want to be a 'pillar of society' but I don't consider myself good enough for society... On a purely superficial level I'm always criticising myself about my appearance, for example, and if anyone dares to tell me I'm pretty I say they're a liar or I believe they're saying it sarcastically. I can come up with 101 criticisms of myself but would struggle to write 10 good things. Such has always been my way though, so it's not changing now.

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