[MBTI General] ISTP/ISTJ Differences

["?"]

ISTPs are not all mechanically inclined and prone to extreme sports (or are they), ISTJs may be painstakingly detail oriented (or are they). Can one be ISTP without the interest in mechanics? Can one be ISTJ without being able to balance a checkbook?

I would like to know what your experiences are in seeing the difference in the two, for those who have confirmed or are confident that they are ISTJ or ISTP, and know of at least one ISTP/ISTJ respectively. This is not to exclude other types, but I am not seeking the obvious based on descriptions or stereotypes. So you have to be pretty much be one to answer this inquiry and be able to have experienced the other type (not assuming they were, but that the person informed you that they were). I know this is a very arduous task since neither type goes around speedreading others and discussing type at least not on a routine basis.

 

[rhinosaur]

When I thought I was an intuitive I thought I would not have much in common with ISTJs. However after having met a few confirmed ISTJs I've found that we do actually have a lot in common. It's kind of like a common way of interacting, or common interests, I'm not sure. They're like a mellower and calmer version of me haha. That might just be the chocolate talking though.

Jesus I'm hyperactive today.

 

[phoenity]

ISTPs are not all mechanically inclined and prone to extreme sports (or are they), ISTJs may be painstakingly detail oriented (or are they). Can one be ISTP without the interest in mechanics? Can one be ISTJ without being able to balance a checkbook?

I would like to know what your experiences are in seeing the difference in the two, for those who have confirmed or are confident that they are ISTJ or ISTP, and know of at least one ISTP/ISTJ respectively. This is not to exclude other types, but I am not seeking the obvious based on descriptions or stereotypes. So you have to be pretty much be one to answer this inquiry and be able to have experienced the other type (not assuming they were, but that the person informed you that they were). I know this is a very arduous task since neither type goes around speedreading others and discussing type at least not on a routine basis.

I guess I can't answer your main question since I don't think I know any ISTJs.


Personally, growing up I was never involved in sports at all, but I did enjoy the adrenaline rush of going as fast as I possibly could in whatever it was I was doing.

In recent years my adrenaline cravings are somewhat satisfied by screaming down twisty mountain roads on a 15lb bicycle trying to hit personal speed records. I wiped out on some gravel during a descent last summer that removed a lot of skin from my legs and left some pretty big scars. I don't regret it at all now that the skin has grown back.

 

[rhinosaur]

Haha phone I hear you about the adrenaline rush. I've done stuff like that all my life and don't ever plan to stop.

 

[Habba]

As an ISTJ I'm not too keen on these adrenaline rushes. But I have been playing football for 12 years now, and done some others sports too. I'm very much able to keep records and track of things, if I want to. But I've learned that isn't so necessary, so I only do that when it's really needed... if it was up to me, I'd like to have a huge collection of statistics about my life. How cool would it be to know how many bottles of Pepsi I've drank in my life.

I'm not sure, but I _might_ know an ISTP. He's very interested in watching sports, but not as keen on participating it... although he does casually play football.

 

[Hexis]

I think this not liking adrenaline thing for ISTJs is a very common thing. The one ISTJ I know very well is my best friend and he actually gets sick when he experiences adrenaline. Not bad enough to cause problems but extremely uncomfortable for him. And when he is in a situation that will cause his adrenaline to rush he just gets EXTREMELY irritable if not out right pissed off and has been known to lash out verbally immediately at whatever the cause is.

 

["?"]

Thanks for the responses so far. What about other things that may be something that only ISTJs or ISTPs see themselves doing? For example with Si does ISTJs (as supposedly all SJs) live by the rule, "we have always done it this way"? I know that SP types don’t necessarily like change for its own sake. However I knew a female ISTJ (although I still say that she was ISFJ) that always hated when she was told this is the way we have always done it, because it allowed no room for creativity. She was impressed with my ability to negotiate resolutions to disputes and would ask me how I seem to do it so effortlessly. I had never thought about it, but would “just do it” (which is supposedly a Se/SP trait).

I think the finites are where the real differences may be, especially since I am not an adrenaline junkie in the sense being discussed. However when negotiating, actively solving a problem at work, having a situation that comes up, calling for split decision and action, I get pumped.

 

[alicia91]

However I knew a female ISTJ (although I still say that she was ISFJ) that always hated when she was told this is the way we have always done it, because it allowed no room for creativity

I have two good friends who are ISTJs and the female is fairly traditional about using tried and true ways however, she's first in line for something new if she can see that something is an improvement on the old. The male ISTJ only likes to do things the tried and true way when it makes sense to him, but in general he hates to be told what to do in the first place so he tends to ask a lot of 'whys?' and then finally agree. Likes to control others but hates to be controlled.

 

[Recoleta]

Can one be ISTJ without being able to balance a checkbook?

Yes! I hate checkbooks. Seriously, I haven't balanced mine since about 2002. It's all online anyway, and I remember the things I purchase.

In recent years my adrenaline cravings are somewhat satisfied by screaming down twisty mountain roads on a 15lb bicycle trying to hit personal speed records.

Yeah, I'm pretty mellow, and not the biggest fan of adrenaline. Adrenaline is fun sometimes (like rollercoasters and sports), but overall, I find adrenaline makes me uncomfortable because I act on impulse and it makes me feel nervous that my normally very calculated nature is not under my control.

What about other things that may be something that only ISTJs or ISTPs see themselves doing? For example with Si does ISTJs (as supposedly all SJs) live by the rule, "we have always done it this way"? I know that SP types don’t necessarily like change for its own sake. However I knew a female ISTJ (although I still say that she was ISFJ) that always hated when she was told this is the way we have always done it, because it allowed no room for creativity. She was impressed with my ability to negotiate resolutions to disputes and would ask me how I seem to do it so effortlessly. I had never thought about it, but would “just do it” (which is supposedly a Se/SP trait).

I have two good friends who are ISTJs and the female is fairly traditional about using tried and true ways however, she's first in line for something new if she can see that something is an improvement on the old.

I find myself being like the other female ISTJs you described. I'm usually not stuck dealing exclusively with the "tried and true" way. If I see something better, I'd most certainly rather do that. I find that along the lines of ISTJ creativity, we're not innovators (like the Ns are) that come up with whole new systems, but I am a synthesizer in the sense that I can look at a whole bunch of different methods that have been used in the past and I can see certain features of merit in each one. Then, I take out the parts of the methods that I think went really well, and I put them together or rearrange them to produce something that is new and more efficient. A lot of people have called me creative, and perhaps that is true to a certain degree, but really, I just don't like to waste time.

 

[raz]

At times, I wonder if I'm an ISTP, but I think I can just shift over to something similar at times. I'm wondering if it's because I've just gained more experience using Ti or something. Ti is supposed to be perceptual in that it allows you to analyze things internally on the fly as opposed to following external rules set by Te. That's a problem I face a lot, even as an ISTJ. I want to be able to figure things out on my own a lot, mostly in math classes, actually. I don't like following strict procedures because they're so....forced and boxed in.

 

[entropie]

Maybe this can help you, it starts to get intresting from the title "Group behaviour" on. The things before it is bond to socionics:

ISTJ:
Beta Quadra - Wikisocion

ISTP:
Delta Quadra - Wikisocion

 

[Amira]

I find that along the lines of ISTJ creativity, we're not innovators (like the Ns are) that come up with whole new systems, but I am a synthesizer in the sense that I can look at a whole bunch of different methods that have been used in the past and I can see certain features of merit in each one. Then, I take out the parts of the methods that I think went really well, and I put them together or rearrange them to produce something that is new and more efficient. A lot of people have called me creative, and perhaps that is true to a certain degree, but really, I just don't like to waste time.

Yeah, what Recoleta said. Synthesizer, that's me!

 

[NewEra]

I'm an ISTJ. I love to watch and play certain sports (usually involving quickness and not strength). I don't like adrenaline rushes. I tend to over-think somethings, yet under-think other things. I generally tend to categorize things too. Certain days, I feel very different from other days.

 

["?"]

Again some great feedback. We know that Myers-Briggs alluded to at least two types of ISTP, the non/mechanically inclined. The non-mechanical type usually has interest in law, economics, statistics, marketing, etc… Was this alluding to actually describing IST types (with 50-50 J/P)? Based on interaction styles of Berens, ISTs both prefer “Chart the Course”. Where they differ is along the lines of core temperament values. However these values are fluid and each temperament can share values of other temperaments. Besides Myers-Briggs saw the temperament breakdown a bit more simplistic in keeping them separated across the board by perceiving/judging function (ST,SF,NT,NF). Here is an excerpt from some of the better descriptions of type at Team Technology:

ISTJs try to clarify concepts and information, seeking to have as clear knowledge as possible. They often place a lot of trust in experience, but also envisage future goals providing there is a clear pathway to that goal.

ISTPs analyze situations and come up with explanations of how things work. They prefer dealing with tangible problems and proven experience - they often enjoy solving organizational problems that need to be thought through.

I see myself (non-mechanical ISTP type) being very close to ISTJ in every way. With the exception that I prefer SP temperament first, Ti-Se/Si-Te have an uncanny resemblance.

 

[phoenity]

Actually, I think I DO have an ISTJ friend. He's always asking me why we get along so well, and we both just shrug.

We're both very nonchalant. We'll make plans to hang out at his place in the evening. He'll tell me about what time he'll be getting home, which I take as come by anytime after that and I'll be here.

Since I work in an office during the day, I have to do some kind of physical activity afterwards otherwise I get restless. I like to go swimming, biking, or running before I go hang out with him during which I am NOT paying attention to the time. Frequently this causes me to arrive to his house 30 minutes after he got home, and I won't hear the end of it that night because I was "late".

What do you mean I'm late?? We didn't set a specific time to start hanging out! You just told me what time you'd get home, and I figured I'd get there around that time. It's not like we're doing anything anyway that requires either of us to be on time! We're just hanging out, watching TV, drinking beer, and just BSing in general. Why do you have to treat it like it's a dinner reservation!

 

[Manimal]

I have two good friends who are ISTJs and the female is fairly traditional about using tried and true ways however, she's first in line for something new if she can see that something is an improvement on the old.

+

I find that along the lines of ISTJ creativity, we're not innovators (like the Ns are) that come up with whole new systems, but I am a synthesizer in the sense that I can look at a whole bunch of different methods that have been used in the past and I can see certain features of merit in each one. Then, I take out the parts of the methods that I think went really well, and I put them together or rearrange them to produce something that is new and more efficient. A lot of people have called me creative, and perhaps that is true to a certain degree, but really, I just don't like to waste time.

is definatly a good description of my ISTJ mom. she also does not like aderenaline, shes not big on supprises, likes to have things well planed out in advance, is incredibly reliable, hates any form of acounting!, likes to know the ending to movies before she watches them, believes in things like wearing clean underwear incase you get into an acident, thinks steak cant be eaten for breakfast and cereal cant be eaten for dinner because they just cant be, always has to know whats going on, and is constantly inspecting even the smallest detail NOTHING escapes her eye!

 

[Shadow]

I'm not even sure I know any ISTPs! How to spot them? Lol.

I have two good friends who are ISTJs and the female is fairly traditional about using tried and true ways however, she's first in line for something new if she can see that something is an improvement on the old.

I agree. I like the tried and tested if it's been proven to work. If it's not broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, if someone comes up with a brilliant new idea that would be a good change, I'll support it. I don't like change for change's sake, but sometimes there needs to be innovation because the 'old ways' or the 'recently implemented but clearly useless ways' need an upheaval.

I find myself being like the other female ISTJs you described. I'm usually not stuck dealing exclusively with the "tried and true" way. If I see something better, I'd most certainly rather do that. I find that along the lines of ISTJ creativity, we're not innovators (like the Ns are) that come up with whole new systems, but I am a synthesizer in the sense that I can look at a whole bunch of different methods that have been used in the past and I can see certain features of merit in each one. Then, I take out the parts of the methods that I think went really well, and I put them together or rearrange them to produce something that is new and more efficient. A lot of people have called me creative, and perhaps that is true to a certain degree, but really, I just don't like to waste time.

I like your 'synthesizer' idea

On other topics: I've always hated sport. Loathed it. If you're not naturally talented at it the really sporty people will yell at you, plus it's boring and too much effort Adrenaline can be fun, but for the most part I don't like it because I become panicky, irritated, angry and I can't think straight.
As for this business of ISTJs supposedly enjoying keeping track of our money and all that, it certainly doesn't apply to me. I save it, but once it's put away I don't like to think about it. I make sure I don't spend too much but I don't enjoy going over my bank statements. My ISFJ boyfriend loves to do that sort of thing though.
I've also seen descriptions which suggest that we're good at mathematics because we like detail. I wish that were the case, but it was always my worst subject.

+
is definatly a good description of my ISTJ mom. she also does not like aderenaline, shes not big on supprises, likes to have things well planed out in advance, is incredibly reliable, hates any form of acounting!, likes to know the ending to movies before she watches them, believes in things like wearing clean underwear incase you get into an acident, thinks steak cant be eaten for breakfast and cereal cant be eaten for dinner because they just cant be, always has to know whats going on, and is constantly inspecting even the smallest detail NOTHING escapes her eye!

I agree with the first bit of what you say but I'd never want to know the end of a movie before I watched it! If someone told me I'd throw popcorn at them. As for wearing clean underwear, ummm... well, obviously. Eat steak for breakfast and cereal for dinner if you like but I can't see the appeal at all just because I'm not that hungry in the morning and I'm starving at night!

 

[Poki]

I think the descriptions of ISTP/ISTJ are messed up and the fact that there are 2 types of ISTP shows that its wrong.

 

[Poki]

Actually, I think I DO have an ISTJ friend. He's always asking me why we get along so well, and we both just shrug.

We're both very nonchalant. We'll make plans to hang out at his place in the evening. He'll tell me about what time he'll be getting home, which I take as come by anytime after that and I'll be here.

Since I work in an office during the day, I have to do some kind of physical activity afterwards otherwise I get restless. I like to go swimming, biking, or running before I go hang out with him during which I am NOT paying attention to the time. Frequently this causes me to arrive to his house 30 minutes after he got home, and I won't hear the end of it that night because I was "late".

What do you mean I'm late?? We didn't set a specific time to start hanging out! You just told me what time you'd get home, and I figured I'd get there around that time. It's not like we're doing anything anyway that requires either of us to be on time! We're just hanging out, watching TV, drinking beer, and just BSing in general. Why do you have to treat it like it's a dinner reservation!

My wife is late to everything and is J, but you wont hear the end of it if your late. Why was he upset? That makes all the difference in the world. If you wanted to do the running jogging, etc and his late caused you not to would you say something and would he hear the end of it?

 

[Poki]

One thing to look at is internal judging vs external judging. Do you internalize before you act? or act before you internalize. I think that is the key to J vs P. Js are Te/Fe before Ti/Fi. So they act, then think. Ps are Fi/Ti before Fe/Te so they think before they act.