[SJ] How to make a SJ stop nagging?

[Recoleta]

What would it take for an SJ like you to go back on your initial request?

A logical argument that proves that what I am asking is overbearing, excessive, or irrational.

Honestly, I consider myself a rational person who chooses their battles sparingly and wisely, and I expect much more of myself than those around me. I expect to be respected, but I don't think I excessively nag and ask for things "just because I said so."

The only recent nagging that I can think of involved my dad and I. My dad decided to purchase a newer-model SUV for my little sister who just got her license. Now, I'm the oldest of 4, and my brothers and I all got pieces of junk for our first cars. Clearly, my little sis is favored in every way by my father (there's more stories)...the kid gets everything she wants (and FTR, she can't even drive well)! I nagged him that he was being unfair and showing clear preference toward my sister above everyone else despite the fact that she does nothing spectacular. My dad simply responded, "You know life's not fair, and it's my money and what I do with it is my choice."

I was angry with him, and was nagging him in telling him not to get it, but what could I do? It's wasn't my decision to make, and it wasn't my money, so why should I care? I walked off.

Is that along the lines of what you were looking for? Could you provide a specific example of "invalid" nagging?

 

[Giggly]

^^ Aww Recoleta. That was unfair.

What type do you think your Dad is?

 

[Giggly]

Hey, you know, this is just a suggestion re: the OP but how about just firmly saying "Will you please stop nagging me?!" Would that work? I know that would work on me if I were the nagger. lol

 

[ajblaise]

A logical argument that proves that what I am asking is overbearing, excessive, or irrational.

Honestly, I consider myself a rational person who chooses their battles sparingly and wisely, and I expect much more of myself than those around me. I expect to be respected, but I don't think I excessively nag and ask for things "just because I said so."

The only recent nagging that I can think of involved my dad and I. My dad decided to purchase a newer-model SUV for my little sister who just got her license. Now, I'm the oldest of 4, and my brothers and I all got pieces of junk for our first cars. Clearly, my little sis is favored in every way by my father (there's more stories)...the kid gets everything she wants (and FTR, she can't even drive well)! I nagged him that he was being unfair and showing clear preference toward my sister above everyone else despite the fact that she does nothing spectacular. My dad simply responded, "You know life's not fair, and it's my money and what I do with it is my choice."

I was angry with him, and was nagging him in telling him not to get it, but what could I do? It's wasn't my decision to make, and it wasn't my money, so why should I care? I walked off.

Is that along the lines of what you were looking for? Could you provide a specific example of "invalid" nagging?

I think nagging can have a perfectly logical reason behind it, but it's just the fact that the person chose nagging as an output instead of something else, which could be more constructive. So then it depends on if the nagging was needless or unnecessary or not. Your example didn't sound that bad. I don't think ISxJs tend to be the worst.

I get nagged about some things and it's occasionally probably for the better. I think that's true for most NPs, but we wouldn't want to admit that. Because by definition, getting nagged is annoying and overly persistent.

 

[ajblaise]

Hey, you know, this is just a suggestion re: the OP but how about just firmly saying "Will you please stop nagging me?!" Would that work? I know that would work on me if I were the nagger. lol

Yep, directly identifying the nagger as a nagger is the first step to eradicating it.

 

[Recoleta]

^^ Aww Recoleta. That was unfair.

What type do you think your Dad is?

Oh don't worry. I still think *cough* know *cough* I'm right.

My dad took the MBTI test for work a few years ago, but I don't remember his result. It wouldn't surprise me if he's an ENTJ or ESTJ. I lean more toward N because our thought processes are not similar at all. While he has his good qualities, he can be really anal retentive about stupid things...and yeah, he's a nagger too...lol. The dishwasher is a major source of conflict between the 2 of us, because in his mind, if the light is green, the dishwasher MUST be emptied immediately. I, on the other hand, don't care at all about the dishwasher, and I'll get around to it when I'm good and ready. I've tried to explain to him that the dishes aren't going anywhere, but this of course makes him angry (lol, I should take my own advice and negotiate with him).

I usually end up yelling at him saying that if I can make it through grad school and can be trusted with the responsibility of running a classroom of kids then I can handle the stupid dishwasher on my own time frame. I'm an adult, and have lived on my own before and my life went just fine without him telling me what to do. For the record, I always win the dishwasher fight (see, I disarmed him with a logical argument).

 

[Recoleta]

I think nagging can have a perfectly logical reason behind it, but it's just the fact that the person chose nagging as an output instead of something else, which could be more constructive. So then it depends on if the nagging was needless or unnecessary or not. Your example didn't sound that bad. I don't think ISxJs tend to be the worst.

I get nagged about some things and it's occasionally probably for the better. I think that's true for most NPs, but we wouldn't want to admit that. Because by definition, getting nagged is annoying and overly persistent.

You know what, I totally agree. It is the manner of delivery, not so much the actual request (since requests are usually beneficial for both parties involved). As for the dishwasher story I just told, my dad usually begins that conversation by nagging from the get-go, so therefore, I have no other position but to be on the defensive. If he asked nicely, I'd be much more receptive to doing what he wants.

So really, what SJs could work on is the delivery of our requests (as in, make it a request, and not a demand and give them some space and time to meet our request should they choose to do it)

Ok, everybody happy? It's bed time! Chau!

 

[Rangler]

If it's a coworker, ask for the request via email.

If it's a friend or significant other, make them explain why it should be a priority.

If you're getting pissed off because they're right, acknowledge your pettiness and do the task.

If it truly is not a priority, tell them that in the most impersonal manner possible and point to all the more important shit you are working on.

In my experience NTs and SJs often come into conflict this way. It's important to build a relationship of trust and respect before a conflict occurs. It's equally important to drive the agenda when dealing with SJs, always be a step ahead with an eye to the future. That's what NTs strength is.

 

[T-Guy]

If you want an SJ to stop nagging you, listen to him or her. It's frustrating for both parties. They'll probably nag you when you aren't fulfilling your responsibilities. So be responsible to their standards.

 

[Costrin]

If you want an SJ to stop nagging you, listen to him or her. It's frustrating for both parties. They'll probably nag you when you aren't fulfilling your responsibilities. So be responsible to their standards.

The problem is, we probably disagree on what my responsibilities are.

Also, ZOMG an ESTJ.

 

[T-Guy]

Well there should be certain rules and agreements set up before any of the responsibilities are assigned...what exactly is ZOMG anyways?

 

[Costrin]

Well there should be certain rules and agreements set up before any of the responsibilities are assigned

I agree, but sometimes you are shunted into a role without any choice (such as parent-child relationships), and the two might disagree on the responsibilities entailed in such a role. Or sometimes problems come up that weren't though up ahead of time.

...what exactly is ZOMG anyways?

OMG with a Z in front of it. Expressing my (pleasant) surprise at finding an ESTJ on this forum. Always nice to see more varied type representation here.

 

[FDG]

If you want an SJ to stop nagging you, listen to him or her. It's frustrating for both parties. They'll probably nag you when you aren't fulfilling your responsibilities. So be responsible to their standards.

Why aren't you responsible to mine, instead? I would prefer it that way

 

[Shadow]

I can see where you're coming from, and to a certain extent I can agree if the situation is peer to peer. However, I think the bigger issue with SJs is the amount of time it takes the other person to fulfill our request. I think when SJs say something, they expect a somewhat immediate response (because their own responses are immediate...and yes, we sometimes project our own high standards onto others), and it irritates us if something we deem as important is totally blown off by the other party. In order to stop the nagging, all you have to do is simply negotiate. Say, "Honey, I'm doing X right now, but I'll be happy to do it the next free moment I have." Of course, this will really only work if you are actually dependable and follow through.

Frankly, SJs are fairly hardworking and self-sufficient, and IMO we don't ask for a whole lot of big things from our partners. We show love and commitment in the day-to-day things, and we like it when our partners notice all the little things we do that often go unnoticed. It's sometimes really easy for us to become doormats or taken for granted by the other types. Don't see it so much as us nagging, we'd just like you to share in the responsibility.

Put very nicely.

 

[Shadow]

Oh don't worry. I still think *cough* know *cough* I'm right.

My dad took the MBTI test for work a few years ago, but I don't remember his result. It wouldn't surprise me if he's an ESTJ, though. While he has his good qualities, he can be really anal retentive about stupid things...and yeah, he's a nagger too...lol. The dishwasher is a major source of conflict between the 2 of us, because in his mind, if the light is green, the dishwasher MUST be emptied immediately. I, on the other hand, don't care at all about the dishwasher, and I'll get around to it when I'm good and ready. I've tried to explain to him that the dishes aren't going anywhere, but this of course makes him angry (lol, I should take my own advice and negotiate with him).

I usually end up yelling at him saying that if I can make it through grad school and can be trusted with the responsibility of running a classroom of kids then I can handle the stupid dishwasher on my own time frame. I'm an adult, and have lived on my own before and my life went just fine without him telling me what to do. For the record, I always win the dishwasher fight (see, I disarmed him with a logical argument).

You know what, I totally agree. It is the manner of delivery, not so much the actual request (since requests are usually beneficial for both parties involved). As for the dishwasher story I just told, my dad usually begins that conversation by nagging from the get-go, so therefore, I have no other position but to be on the defensive. If he asked nicely, I'd be much more receptive to doing what he wants.

So really, what SJs could work on is the delivery of our requests (as in, make it a request, and not a demand and give them some space and time to meet our request should they choose to do it)

Ok, everybody happy? It's bed time! Chau!

Your dad sounds a lot like mine. I'd hazard a guess that he's also an ENTJ. I won't go into details here, but I have done on the relationships board under 'NT parents'. We have totally different ideas about what constitutes something important, and your dishwasher example is very similar to the sort of things we argue about. I'm always being told I'm defensive and I think it's because of how I've always communicated with my dad.

An example of one of the things I've nagged about which probably some of you see as unimportant or petty is excessive noise. At my dad's house there is never a moment of silence; 4 TVs are on constantly at a very high volume, or the radio is on at high volume otherwise. If I'm trying to work I need silence. Plus I generally prefer a peaceful environment. So I get really stressed and I have to keep asking if my dad could turn the sound down so I can study for important university work, but he just says it's his house so he'll do what he likes (very hypocritical because he wanted my brothers to do well at school but then never provided a quiet environment for learning). I've given up now. To be fair it is his house. Just don't expect me to visit too often because it makes me insane!
The result: I rarely ever go home. 4 weeks max./year, probably less once I've left university. The noise literally drives me up the wall.

 

[Ivy]

Is their any effective method of having them shutting up? about the trivial things they consider important?.

Yes. Stop being so lazy and ungrateful.

 

[d@v3]

Oh don't worry. I still think *cough* know *cough* I'm right.

My dad took the MBTI test for work a few years ago, but I don't remember his result. It wouldn't surprise me if he's an ESTJ, though. While he has his good qualities, he can be really anal retentive about stupid things...and yeah, he's a nagger too...lol. The dishwasher is a major source of conflict between the 2 of us, because in his mind, if the light is green, the dishwasher MUST be emptied immediately. I, on the other hand, don't care at all about the dishwasher, and I'll get around to it when I'm good and ready. I've tried to explain to him that the dishes aren't going anywhere, but this of course makes him angry (lol, I should take my own advice and negotiate with him).

I usually end up yelling at him saying that if I can make it through grad school and can be trusted with the responsibility of running a classroom of kids then I can handle the stupid dishwasher on my own time frame. I'm an adult, and have lived on my own before and my life went just fine without him telling me what to do. For the record, I always win the dishwasher fight (see, I disarmed him with a logical argument).

Sounds like my father.... maybe it's an ISTJ thing? My suspicions have always been they he was an NT, probably ENTJ. He took the test but I don't remember what he got. Anyhow, we don't get along well when it comes executing a "plan" or "idea". So sadly, we just don't talk much about anything. Don't get me wrong, he is my father and I will always be his son, but it's hard to explain the odd relationship.

If he asks me to do something, he expects it to be done immediately or on HIS time schedule (whenever that is). Well, if I ask him to do something, he doesn't do it until the last minute or he just plain forgets about it!

 

[PeaceBaby]

If it's a priority to me that my partner and I say, be faithful to each other, then I expect it to actually be followed through with in action.

Agree. When I say SJ's "want their priorites to be respected - not obeyed, just respected" I didn't include high-level moral issues such as faithfulness - absolutely everyone has these types of "non-negotiable" values. I simply mean the everyday priorities of order vs chaos, tidyness vs messiness, action vs inaction etc. And I believe SJ's don't want a bunch of mindless automatons just following orders - but they do want to feel like their priorites are respected and listened to.

It's tough for an SJ to be surrounded by non-SJ's - lucky though there are lots of SJ's around! Myself, there are a whole bunch of SJ's in my immediate family, so I both want to accommodate the SJ requirement for planning and order while still maintaining my own free spirit and timetable. It can be a challenge!

Here's another simple example. My hubby loves to do the dishes right after dinner. Me, I like to sit down for half an hour or so and digest my meal before doing them. Does that mean I should jump up and do the dishes like he wants? No. But should he have to wait when it stresses him out that they are sitting there? No. Our compromise? I cook dinner & he does the dishes. We are each then about 50% - 50% responsible for the dinner "task". Basically, I just leave the kitchen when the meal is over, and he takes over immediately. He's happy they get done, I get what makes me happy too. It just requires some creativity to coexist peacefully.

However, I think the bigger issue with SJs is the amount of time it takes the other person to fulfill our request. I think when SJs say something, they expect a somewhat immediate response (because their own responses are immediate...

Yes, I agree timeframe is a big issue. The harder part is when there's a disconnect on the priority level, or agreeing whether something actually needs to get done in the first place.

Say, "Honey, I'm doing X right now, but I'll be happy to do it the next free moment I have." Of course, this will really only work if you are actually dependable and follow through..

Yep, that's how I approach things too. But again, just because something is a priority for you (ie wash the dishes RIGHT after eating) is not for me. So expecting someone to obey is inconsiderate, and that's how an SJ can come across.

Frankly, SJs are fairly hardworking and self-sufficient, and IMO we don't ask for a whole lot of big things from our partners. We show love and commitment in the day-to-day things, and we like it when our partners notice all the little things we do that often go unnoticed. It's sometimes really easy for us to become doormats or taken for granted by the other types. Don't see it so much as us nagging, we'd just like you to share in the responsibility.

We do appreciate you But I have a hard time imagining you as a doormat LOL!

 

[Lady_X]

If you want an SJ to stop nagging you, listen to him or her. It's frustrating for both parties. They'll probably nag you when you aren't fulfilling your responsibilities. So be responsible to their standards.

ahhh!!! or their right to be appointed delegator of said responsibilities!!! ahhhh!!

 

[kiddykat]

I found the most effective way to deal with the situation is.. to nod. Smile. Say: "Absolutely!" Then walk away.

Sometimes, I tune out nagging by replaying my favorite songs in my head or think of something randomly funny. While they spew on externally, I spew on internally by going la-la-la.