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  1. #91
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    As I've said to my husband before, though, it only becomes nagging when I have to ask more than once. If he'd either do it, tell me he plans to do it later (and not so much later that I may as well do it myself), or just come out and say he can't do it, there would be no nagging. He insists he doesn't think I nag (he's more annoyed when I ask him to do something and then micromanage how he does it, which I am working on) but I'm self-conscious about it because I don't want to become this lady:
    I can relate. I am self-conscious of it as well, as I am aware I can be prone to nagging, when it comes to household-related chores and cleanliness.

    However, I also recognize my preferred level of cleanliness is not at all what others' will be, nor do I expect others to want/desire of their own accord the same level I want. So because I know I like the dishes to be cleaned in a reasonable amount of time and my roommate might care less, I voluntarily clean them more often than he. But I also explained to him (he's my brother..might make it easier :-) when we moved in all of this -- that because I know he doesn't care, I don't expect him to do it as often. But that when I tell him it's his turn, he needs to do it. It's probably a me-wash every 2-3 times, he washes the next. He seemed agreeable to this, and he fulfills his end of it.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #92
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    What seems to work better for us is if we don't try to take turns because it just requires more keeping-track-of-whose-turn-it-is than either of us wants to do. So we each have things we just take complete responsibility for. He does the laundry (THANK YOU BABY I LOVE YOU SO MUCH) and trash/recycling, and I do most other stuff because I'm the part-time worker and full-time child-schlepper, so I'm here more. He is always happy to help in the moment with whatever, as long as I don't expect him to drop everything and hop-to, which I'm totally sympathetic to. Some advance requesting and knowledge that the answer might be "can we do that later" seems fair to me.
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  3. #93
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's not like I keep a scorecard re. the dishes, because I don't. I'll do the dishes for a while, because I don't really mind it that much anyway, but then one day when I don't feel like doing it, I ask him to do it and he's fine doing it. It just ends up being probably me 75% or so, he 25%.

    But your thing about each person 'owning' one task is really good. That's probably what would work best in an ltr.

    [Edit: however, regarding taking the garbage out, since both of us hate doing it, we both keep a scorecard and good-naturedly grumble about it. lol.]
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #94
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Yeah, it's not like I keep a scorecard re. the dishes, because I don't. I'll do the dishes for a while, because I don't really mind it that much anyway, but then one day when I don't feel like doing it, I ask him to do it and he's fine doing it. It just ends up being probably me 75% or so, he 25%.

    But your thing about each person 'owning' one task is really good. That's probably what would work best in an ltr.

    [Edit: however, regarding taking the garbage out, since both of us hate doing it, we both keep a scorecard and good-naturedly grumble about it. lol.]
    Now that you mention it, we sort of share the trash/recycling because what I tend to do is put the trash on the front stoop when it gets full, and he'll take it down to the can. Hence, Peggy Hill--although, it's definitely less ridiculous to take it to the front door than to him standing 2 feet from the can... right? And recycling, if I remember it the night before, I'll put it out for him to take to the street when he leaves for work the next morning. We both have a bad track record of forgetting to put the recycling out and since it only comes every other week, it piles up if we forget. So you could say we tag-team on the trash/recycling.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  5. #95
    Senior Member Amira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    6. ESFJ's need to feel useful and needed. I know everyone does a bit, but they really really do. But I don't know how to go about making her feel useful without giving her chores to be responsible for, which seems to me more like a punishment.

    ...

    I have a theory that if I could just make her feel needed, like she had things she could do to be useful and helpful and "essential" in the family, she might stop the nagging. But I dunno how to do that.


    Don't any of your kids have ANY chores? I tend to think it is mean to raise kids without chores they are required to do. If you are talking about giving her a few more chores, then just do it at a time when people are having fun. Tell her, "You are getting big and I think you are ready for more responsibility! How about you start doing X. That will be a big help to us all." And then of course help her until she knows how to do it well and has a habit started. If none of your kids have chores, I would do the same conversation with all of them. Just my opinion.

    Here's another simple example. My hubby loves to do the dishes right after dinner. Me, I like to sit down for half an hour or so and digest my meal before doing them. Does that mean I should jump up and do the dishes like he wants? No. But should he have to wait when it stresses him out that they are sitting there? No. Our compromise? I cook dinner & he does the dishes. We are each then about 50% - 50% responsible for the dinner "task". Basically, I just leave the kitchen when the meal is over, and he takes over immediately. He's happy they get done, I get what makes me happy too. It just requires some creativity to coexist peacefully.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Recoleta
    However, I think the bigger issue with SJs is the amount of time it takes the other person to fulfill our request. I think when SJs say something, they expect a somewhat immediate response (because their own responses are immediate...

    Yes, I agree timeframe is a big issue. The harder part is when there's a disconnect on the priority level, or agreeing whether something actually needs to get done in the first place.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Recoleta
    Say, "Honey, I'm doing X right now, but I'll be happy to do it the next free moment I have." Of course, this will really only work if you are actually dependable and follow through..

    Yep, that's how I approach things too. But again, just because something is a priority for you (ie wash the dishes RIGHT after eating) is not for me. So expecting someone to obey is inconsiderate, and that's how an SJ can come across.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Recoleta
    Frankly, SJs are fairly hardworking and self-sufficient, and IMO we don't ask for a whole lot of big things from our partners. We show love and commitment in the day-to-day things, and we like it when our partners notice all the little things we do that often go unnoticed. It's sometimes really easy for us to become doormats or taken for granted by the other types. Don't see it so much as us nagging, we'd just like you to share in the responsibility.

    I went through a LOT of nagging as a kid so I try very hard not to nag people. (My nagger was an NF) I would agree that when I need people to do something my tendency is to think of it and go ask them to do it and want it done immediately. What I am TRYING to do is think of it beforehand, ask nicely for them to pick a good time to do it as it needs to be done for x reason, and then wait for affirmative before I leave the room. If they absolutely cannot do it for whatever reason, oh well. But if they tell me they can do it at x time, then when x time comes around they either do it or I can point to the time and say, "Oh look, it's already time to do x!" It's my responsibility to present things in a way that is respectful and kind and it is their responsibility to do the things they should be doing. I try not to expand people's reasonable responsibilities in my head, either, which could be easy to do!

  6. #96
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Guy View Post
    Yeah, but let's say you are responsible for taking out the garbage that will be picked up tomorrow morning. When you just sit around doing nothing, I have good reasons to tell you to do your job. So there shouldn't be a need for smooth talking or asking nicely or giving you a reason because you are not doing what you are suppose to do.
    Well, keep in mind that even if they agreed to do something, they may not agree on how much of a priority it is. If they still have plenty of time to do it, then I would just leave them alone. If it's getting close to the deadline, then I would remind them once. If it's really close to the deadline, then you can get pushier, and if they miss the deadline, then you have free reign.

    So the biggest thing, is to make sure not only that you agree on the responsibilities, but also what priority they are, and the deadline for them.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Guy View Post
    Yeah, but let's say you are responsible for taking out the garbage that will be picked up tomorrow morning. When you just sit around doing nothing, I have good reasons to tell you to do your job. So there shouldn't be a need for smooth talking or asking nicely or giving you a reason because you are not doing what you are suppose to do.
    Doesn't sound like an example of a situation where nagging could occur... if the taking out of the garbage is urgent and thats the persons job then I agree you. You shouldn't need to ask them nicely but hey it always helps, why not?

    Of course this is not what the thread is about, a better example would be "cleaning the garage" as there is no urgency in this. However to an SJ that asked you to do it, it would be expected to be done and thats when said nagging starts to occur

    Now if I wanted someone I'm living with to clean the garage and lets say for example I had nothing to offer in return then I would defiantly be asking said person in a way that shows that you really need the help (maybe you are swamped with work, tell them)

    If they AGREE don't just leave it at that and assume it will be done... two words... time frame

    If they agree, finish by saying it needs to be done today and come up with a reason (cause you have one... don't you? )

    If they say no or why should I? say that you will "owe them one" and "would really appreciate it", half the time they will forget that you even said it

    Of course I personally wouldn't ask someone to clean my garage LOL but there you go, thats my example

  8. #98
    Senior Member Shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukepd View Post
    Doesn't sound like an example of a situation where nagging could occur... if the taking out of the garbage is urgent and thats the persons job then I agree you. You shouldn't need to ask them nicely but hey it always helps, why not?

    Of course this is not what the thread is about, a better example would be "cleaning the garage" as there is no urgency in this. However to an SJ that asked you to do it, it would be expected to be done and thats when said nagging starts to occur

    Now if I wanted someone I'm living with to clean the garage and lets say for example I had nothing to offer in return then I would defiantly be asking said person in a way that shows that you really need the help (maybe you are swamped with work, tell them)

    If they AGREE don't just leave it at that and assume it will be done... two words... time frame

    If they agree, finish by saying it needs to be done today and come up with a reason (cause you have one... don't you? )

    If they say no or why should I? say that you will "owe them one" and "would really appreciate it", half the time they will forget that you even said it

    Of course I personally wouldn't ask someone to clean my garage LOL but there you go, thats my example

    Is that an SJ thing though? I associate that sort of pointless nagging with my ENTJ dad. If something's really not necessary why would I care? Especially with the cleaning, believe me, cleaning is always the last thing on my list of priorities in life.
    No, I think SJ nagging is more the sort that T-Guy mentioned, it's when people fail to act out on essential responsibilities that are in place for a good reason. It's like, I don't mind people not washing the dishes for a while, but I would complain if there were so many dirty dishes around I couldn't use kitchen surfaces and the sink, or they were starting to develop mould. Because then cleaning them would be very essential.
    My nagging's more along the lines of: I need you to fill in this form before the deadline and the deadline's tomorrow, I warned you about it and asked you politely to do it over a month ago, so please can you do it! (I would have been nagging them for a week prior to the deadline, and reminding them at occasional interviews before that.)

  9. #99
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    I agree with Shadow here because I wouldn't nag someone to help me clean out the garage. I would clean out the garage because it would be my responsibility and I would be the best at cleaning it

  10. #100
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    In the past i thought being an ISTJ is insensitive & cold blooded person ...but now I feel better,because I am what i am ,,,and its all about the art to communicate to others around me.(my sister ENFJ,my mom INFP & my daughter ENTP),so being around N people sometimes a bit frustrating ,they accused me of nag & impation,,,,

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