[SJ] SJ's - we love you!

[Hawthorne]

Before this thread gets too serious for me, I would like to humbly request that this community develop anti-black magic measures to contain [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION]'s rampant necromancy.

It is starting to make me uncomfortable.

 

[Chrysanthe]

I don't recall you being overly overjoyed when I suggested that you might be an ISFJ. Everyone pretends to be openly accepting of the equal value of all types, but at the end of the day no one wants to be an SJ. It is what it is. They distance themselves from the notion that they might be one by propogating these stereotypes, paying their dues by pretending to acknowledge the 'strengths' of these types, but doing so in a way that frequently is used as a way to contrast their self developed personas against those characteristics.

Oh I Loves Me some ISTJ's they are such hard workers(mindless drones that I am not), such loyal friends(again), who can put up with all my wild creative energy that I just can't contain(Look guys I am NOT an SJ- I am nothing like them at all, though I myself DON't - and you can't say that I have anything agaisnt them cus look I gaves them the compliments... I'm an NP, not a boring uncreative SJ. But now it is a win win.)

Thanks for saying this. Though I think the SJ stereotypes are only based off MBTI and Keirsey. Socionics seems to be relatively free of bias towards them.

 

[Frosty]

Actually, I would enjoy it .

Some of the best people I know and have known are SJ's.

I really have absolutely no idea where your rage on this is coming from, and even so I suspect it is coming from unsubstantiated reasons based nothing more off personal bias.



That's not the point of the thread. If you really want to talk about it, make a different thread on it. I can assure though it won't turn out well. Nothing good comes from shitting on other types, no matter how much you might dislike them.

I could possibly believe this from you, but not from a large base of the forum. There is heavy unspoken low grade self predjudice against SJ's on this forum. How many times do you see someone come on here and ask which SJ am I- compared to NJ or NP.

 

[Frosty]

Like I said...

*goes to widescreen*

I'm an INFJ.

Gosh I hate using the term INFJ, it's so overused in the mbti community, it's no longer cool to say it.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Frosty]

It's okay Buttercup.

I don't want to get into a sniping fest with you, I really don't- but what you did legitimately just underlines one of the points I just made.

 

[á´…eparted]

I could possibly believe this from you, but not from a large base of the forum. There is heavy unspoken low grade self predjudice against SJ's on this forum. How many times do you see someone come on here and ask which SJ am I- compared to NJ or NP.

I have been involved in typology communities since 2008. There has always been, and always will be, a collective bias against SJ's. This is largely because of presentation of other types in a comparatively better or mystical light. This is further compounded by the fact that SJ's as a whole tend to be less interested in typology, so there is a skewed representation. The bias will never vanish. The best that can be done is for individual who are aware of it in themselves to push against it (I have bias's against other types I push against). As well as for others to do their best to dismiss stereotypes as they come up. If this means people sharing what they like about SJ's, then let it happen.

Is this any reason to hate on this thread for existing though? Uh, no. It's extremely presumptuous to chastize and scold people for expressing an opinion you simply don't believe, and you simply don't believe their sincerity. When it comes to determining that, you need to look at the individual, not a collective level (as you are trying to do).

Even so, you're very hating on the purpose of this thread, over something as petty and diminutive as "sincerity of opinion" actually damages the whole perception of SJ's, thus actually making things worse for their image.

 

[Frosty]

You don't understand my quirky humor?

I'll be Captain Obvious: I'm purposely making fun of Ni.

Anyway if what your point is what you're mentioning: Yes I am having fun and nothing deep and meaningful are coming from my posts.

What you are saying is not exactly meaningful no, but by playfully making fun of your type- especially after I questioned it, makes it seem as if you are just trying to validate it to others- but again do so in a manner that suggests that is exactly not what you are doing.

 

[Forever]

What you are saying is not exactly meaningful no, but by playfully making fun of your type- especially after I questioned it, makes it seem as if you are just trying to validate it to others- but again do so in a manner that suggests that is exactly not what you are doing.

People's beliefs won't change on my playful humor lol.

 

[Frosty]

I have been involved in typology communities since 2008. There has always been, and always will be, a collective bias against SJ's. This is largely because of presentation of other types in a comparatively better or mystical light. This is further compounded by the fact that SJ's as a whole tend to be less interested in typology, so there is a skewed representation. The bias will never vanish. The best that can be done is for individual who are aware of it in themselves to push against it (I have bias's against other types I push against). As well as for others to do their best to dismiss stereotypes as they come up. If this means people sharing what they like about SJ's, then let it happen.

Is this any reason to hate on this thread for existing though? Uh, no. It's extremely presumptuous to chastize and scold people for expressing an opinion you simply don't believe, and you simply don't believe their sincerity. When it comes to determining that, you need to look at the individual, not a collective level (as you are trying to do).

Even so, you're very hating on the purpose of this thread, over something as petty and diminutive as "sincerity of opinion" actually damages the whole perception of SJ's, thus actually making things worse for their image.

When those opinions are based on a very shallow representation of what being an SJ happens to encompass- a representation that is beingg furthered mindlessly, and those are my thoughts and my opinion, why should I not put that out there. I could look at a description of an SJ and reiterate it just as well as anyone else- post something surface level positive about them- and then claim that my 'duty' is done. The issue with these types of threads is that they immediately encourage bypassing the individual. No one is trying to develop any understanding, and because of that and threads like this those stereotypes will just cement.

If people think I am presumptuous they can question me all they want. I don't exactly think it is some sort of nefarious plot- but I do think that this is definately at the very least a semi-concious influence.

I'll add, I don't think the sentiment behind this thread is a bad one- but the judgement of the equality of the types automatically turns it so. It is like asking picasso to go into an elementary school and talk about how wonderful all the paintings are.

 

[Coriolis]

Hmm. Being level-headed, able to get work done, support your community...
I can't see it being an insult if someone told me all 3 of those things.

I would consider it a compliment if someone told me these things. Sometimes, they even do.

I don't recall you being overly overjoyed when I suggested that you might be an ISFJ. Everyone pretends to be openly accepting of the equal value of all types, but at the end of the day no one wants to be an SJ. It is what it is. They distance themselves from the notion that they might be one by propogating these stereotypes, paying their dues by pretending to acknowledge the 'strengths' of these types, but doing so in a way that frequently is used as a way to contrast their self developed personas against those characteristics.

You might want to check with [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] and [MENTION=19948]Showbread[/MENTION] as to the highlighted. People who really aren't SJs might be uncomfortable with the suggestion that they are, just as people who identify as female are uncomfortable when mistaken for male. Nothing wrong with the other side, but sometimes it just "isn't me". All types do have strengths. Sometimes we value the strengths we recognize in ourselves; other times we value more what we are lacking. Even those who don't put much stock into typology systems understand that people are different.

When those opinions are based on a very shallow representation of what being an SJ happens to encompass- a representation that is beingg furthered mindlessly, and those are my thoughts and my opinion, why should I not put that out there. I could look at a description of an SJ and reiterate it just as well as anyone else- post something surface level positive about them- and then claim that my 'duty' is done. The issue with these types of threads is that they immediately encourage bypassing the individual. No one is trying to develop any understanding, and because of that and threads like this those stereotypes will just cement.

If people think I am presumptuous they can question me all they want. I don't exactly think it is some sort of nefarious plot- but I do think that this is definately at the very least a semi-concious influence.

I'll add, I don't think the sentiment behind this thread is a bad one- but the judgement of the equality of the types automatically turns it so. It is like asking picasso to go into an elementary school and talk about how wonderful all the paintings are.

I don't see the highlighted happening here. I'm not an SJ, though, so I understand how someone who is might have a different perspective. If this applies to you, by all means - do put that out there. Tell us what is wrong with the statements people have posted in an attempt to compliment SJs, so we can understand better.

 

[á´…eparted]

When those opinions are based on a very shallow representation of what being an SJ happens to encompass- a representation that is beingg furthered mindlessly, and those are my thoughts and my opinion, why should I not put that out there. I could look at a description of an SJ and reiterate it just as well as anyone else- post something surface level positive about them- and then claim that my 'duty' is done. The issue with these types of threads is that they immediately encourage bypassing the individual. No one is trying to develop any understanding, and because of that and threads like this those stereotypes will just cement.

If people think I am presumptuous they can question me all they want. I don't exactly think it is some sort of nefarious plot- but I do think that this is definately at the very least a semi-concious influence.

I'll add, I don't think the sentiment behind this thread is a bad one- but the judgement of the equality of the types automatically turns it so. It is like asking picasso to go into an elementary school and talk about how wonderful all the paintings are.

Yeah, you don't get it. I'm done. Reread what I said.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I'll add, I don't think the sentiment behind this thread is a bad one- but the judgement of the equality of the types automatically turns it so. It is like asking picasso to go into an elementary school and talk about how wonderful all the paintings are.

This thread was created over 6 years ago, by me, likely in response to some forum sniping at SJs in general. It was an attempt to bring balance to the force, but by all means, imagine yourself to know the sentiment behind the thread.

Additionally, my husband is ESTJ, my father ISTJ, my mother ISFJ, my sister-in-law ISTJ and my mother-in-law ESFJ.

If there's anyone here who can lay claim to loving some SJs, it's me. There's a lot of them in my immediate circle to love.

I fucking hate this thread

I've got no problem with you hating it, but it's not the thread you hate.

 

[miss fortune]

I don't recall you being overly overjoyed when I suggested that you might be an ISFJ. Everyone pretends to be openly accepting of the equal value of all types, but at the end of the day no one wants to be an SJ. It is what it is. They distance themselves from the notion that they might be one by propogating these stereotypes, paying their dues by pretending to acknowledge the 'strengths' of these types, but doing so in a way that frequently is used as a way to contrast their self developed personas against those characteristics.

Oh I Loves Me some ISTJ's they are such hard workers(mindless drones that I am not), such loyal friends(again), who can put up with all my wild creative energy that I just can't contain(Look guys I am NOT an SJ- I am nothing like them at all, though I myself DON't - and you can't say that I have anything agaisnt them cus look I gaves them the compliments... I'm an NP, not a boring uncreative SJ. But now it is a win win.)

hey... I merely said I love some... the man is an sj and so are a majority of my friends and my wonderful mother. I'd certainly hope that there would be some love there!

I'm a SP anyways, so if we are to go by stereotypes I should be "fun" and "good at partying"... meaning that stereotypes can drown in a pool of boiling oil as far as I'm concerned... I wouldn't trade my funny, curious, smart and eye opening people for all of the money in existence

 

[Frosty]

This thread was created over 6 years ago, by me, likely in response to some forum sniping at SJs in general. It was an attempt to bring balance to the force, but by all means, imagine yourself to know the sentiment behind the thread.

Additionally, my husband is ESTJ, my father ISTJ, my mother ISFJ, my sister-in-law ISTJ and my mother-in-law ESFJ.

If there's anyone here who can lay claim to loving some SJs, it's me. There's a lot of them in my immediate circle to love.



I've got no problem with you hating it, but it's not the thread you hate.

No it is not the thread- I just think there is not enough developed information out there for more good than bad to come from it.

I'll reply to the rest of this tomorrow. Look foreward to it, but it is midnight and I have class... Later I guess.

But would it help people not to focus on there being any sort of deep personal motivation if I changed my type...

 

[PeaceBaby]

No it is not the thread- I just think there is not enough developed information out there for more good than bad to come from it.

I'll reply to the rest of this tomorrow. Look foreward to it, but it is midnight and I have class... Later I guess.

I will look forward to you sharing more of your thoughts as well.

 

[prplchknz]

Hmm. Being level-headed, able to get work done, support your community...
I can't see it being an insult if someone told me all 3 of those things.

actually would love this, usually it back fires when i try to all 3 of those things. i kind have an odd respect for SJs especially xSTJs

 

[BadOctopus]

I'm practically a borderline ISTJ, and I think I'm pretty great.

 

[miss fortune]

actually would love this, usually it back fires when i try to all 3 of those things. i kind have an odd respect for SJs especially xSTJs

like I've told the man before "you're perfect and it's not fair!"

he's good at almost everything, everyone likes him AND he's a good guy... I simultaneously wonder how he effortlessly manages it and how I'm lucky enough that he actually likes me

 

[Frosty]

This thread was created over 6 years ago, by me, likely in response to some forum sniping at SJs in general. It was an attempt to bring balance to the force, but by all means, imagine yourself to know the sentiment behind the thread.

Additionally, my husband is ESTJ, my father ISTJ, my mother ISFJ, my sister-in-law ISTJ and my mother-in-law ESFJ.

If there's anyone here who can lay claim to loving some SJs, it's me. There's a lot of them in my immediate circle to love.



I've got no problem with you hating it, but it's not the thread you hate.

Alright.

There is no accusation on this thread more potent and more prone to being defensively questioned then claiming that someone is an SJ.

It is not the case with everyone, but there is a certain- significant population on this site that believes some very rigid stereotypes about SJ's.

You hear about NT's being too blunt, NF's being too emotional, but at the end of the day- if someone is typed as one there generally is not that much of a disagreement.

Their neurosis's are portrayed more as idiosyncracies, aspects that are unique to them- something that makes them special- that can be laughed off as something that just helps to propell them.

To create something that is only shaped in the way their personal biases will allow- usually involving constructing- for some- an identity removed from that.

When they have created those identities- and at this point I am only talking about a subsection... Possibly- they look to differentiate themselves. And the easiest way to do so, the best way to do so if you are to develop yourself as unique- is to latch onto a stereotype and then just reject it- yet compliment to cover. And while not everyone did so- and in all the thread was fine... Maybe, it just really highlights that- and I really think what I mentioned did happen. There are people who are sincere, but it becomes dangerous because of the people who are persoanlly motivated.

 

[miss fortune]

umm... I understand a lot of theories

if in doubt, I have many other posts that can make that point