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  1. #131
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    I love ISFJs and ESFJs. I hope I'm fortunate enough to find one to settle down with.

    I like being an ISTJ because I see through all deception, manipulation, and irrational nonsense. Bias doesn't bother me because I recognize it as such and I have no expectations of anyone, nor do I care how others perceive me. Think of me as an owl. Do owls give a shit about bias? No they don't.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I love ISFJs and ESFJs. I hope I'm fortunate enough to find one to settle down with.

    I like being an ISTJ because I see through all deception, manipulation, and irrational nonsense. Bias doesn't bother me because I recognize it as such and I have no expectations of anyone, nor do I care how others perceive me. Think of me as an owl. Do owls give a shit about bias? No they don't.
    How old are you? I would imagine all the SFJs would be snatched up quite quickly!

  3. #133
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evee
    I would imagine all the SFJs would be snatched up quite quickly!
    Plus, I'm not very competitive and I don't have a sense of urgency so it'll probably be quite a while before this happens. Oh well, if it happens, it happens; if not, then it wasn't meant to be.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.
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  4. #134
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I have a couple of things to think about. If SJ's claim that they are alright with the disproportionate amount of passive aggressive dislike/ 'unfair stereotypes' they recieve- then I don't really know what to say. I suppose more power to them.
    Are you doing your own stereotyping here - assuming how all SJ's will or should react to these comments?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You realize that you read SJ descriptors and find them negative because they are your shadow? When I read an SJ description to my husband, he does find it a bit lacking in spaces, but the words dutiful, responsible, organized, security, tradition ... these aren't shameful words to SJs. They are words to take pride in and live up to. Through the lens of the shadow is where they take on a more 2-dimensional bent.
    Every type has certain buzzwords associated with it that can come across as two-dimensional, if one digs no deeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I like african americans just as long as they don't try to subject me to their african american values, they create great rap music though. But they are absolutely great in theory- right guys? Right?
    People of any type are easier to like when they are not using their various "type gifts" to impose themselves and their agenda on others. Individuals of any type can do this; it just looks different depending on who and which type they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    And I appreciate you for explicitly stating your feelings, but I see people liking stuff like this and then claiming to have no bias or ignoring any bias against SJ's, and it really just furthers the point that this and anything else more low level is perfectly fine, and will even be applauded- all while the idea of what is being done is rejected. As long as the tone isn't obviously negative- any other message is absolutely fine.
    Well, I will readily admit bias to certain kinds of behavior, including speaking without thinking, insisting on slavish adherance to rules regardless of outcome, habitual tardiness, and being unreliable. If people of a specific type tend to display one or more of these behaviors more than other types, odds are I will like fewer people of that type, NOT because of their type, but because of the behavior. Behavior is at most loosely tied to type, though, and many people learn to recognize the things they do that rub folks the wrong way, and work to curb it. Others don't. The best boss and the worst boss I have ever had have both been STJs. This might be simply because there are alot of STJs in management (is that stereotyping??). It does illustrate, however, how the same underlying type preferences can lead to very different behavior, results, and interactions with others.

    Put another way using your earlier analogy: dislike of rap music is not the same thing as bias against African-Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    But before anyone goes, but that's life! I don't see the same thing going on with other typology systems- it is different when there is an association of lesser and greater.
    Any assertion of lesser and greater in MBTI goes squarely against the original intent of Katherine Briggs and Isabel Briggs Myers who originated the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    It actually wasn't until I joined the forum that I realized some people thought there was something wrong with being an SJ. I never thought they were better than any other type, but based on descriptions they seemed like an integral role in society. Let's be real, if everyone in the world were an SJ the world wouldn't be a spectacular place. But, a world without any SJs would also be a disaster.
    Some NT's don't realize until they join a forum like thisi that there's nothing wrong with being NT. It's always eye-opening to see the perspectives of others.

    Bottom line: every type is stereotyped, oversimplified, joked about in ways more unkind than humorous, given backhanded compliments, outright insulted, etc. etc. I suppose this just means that SJs are no more (or less) special than anyone else.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Julius_Van_Der_Beak liked this post

  5. #135
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    It's cool though, I understand everyone means well, even when they come off as a poop face

    Very droll, and nice anchorman reference.


    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    Maybe, I don't know. Some SJs may feel that way when they read these kind of posts. I know I certainly don't. Truthfully I take it as a fluff piece, someone trying to brighten the place up, and I always appreciate anyone's positive energy. I'll leave it to them to comment.
    Oh I don't mean to imply intentional ill/bad intentions. Its just..... how do I put it. Given the tiny portion of the forums population SJs represent, and the inherent self absorption of being human. Is the result ever going to end in anything other then narcissistic self-congratulatory back patting? Ah I'm all word salad at the moment; best if I disappear I think.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”
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  6. #136
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Mobius View Post
    Oh I don't mean to imply intentional ill/bad intentions. Its just..... how do I put it. Given the tiny portion of the forums population SJs represent, and the inherent self absorption of being human. Is the result ever going to end in anything other then narcissistic self-congratulatory back patting? Ah I'm all word salad at the moment; best if I disappear I think.
    Actually, I think I get what you're saying, and I would actually agree with you, but I don't think it can be helped. Intuitive's, from what I understand, are a minority and from what I've seen a lot of the N's around here have had a lot of bad experiences with dealing with some of the worst aspects of us Sensor-folk. As such, to me, any negative perception that may or may not permeate these forums doesn't surprise me. We're all human, we all want to relate and be a part of a group, so I'm not surprised by the SJ bashing that goes along.

    So...yeah, I can see how threads like this might seem kind of patronizing to some. Not to me, but to some.

    Was that what you were getting at or did I misunderstand you?
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson
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  7. #137
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Are you doing your own stereotyping here - assuming how all SJ's will or should react to these comments?
    No- you define something rigidly- don't introduce anything further- and people attach positive sentiment to the best aspects off those stereotypes that they can find. Tell a bird that it can't fly and eventually it might believe you, accept that there is nothing to be done about it, no development to be had, and miss out on the possibility to fly that could be achieved by potentially an alternative measure- even if they might not fly as well as other birds might.

    I don't see the same sentiment taken as seriously in reverse.


    Every type has certain buzzwords associated with it that can come across as two-dimensional, if one digs no deeper.
    This is part of the problem.

    People of any type are easier to like when they are not using their various "type gifts" to impose themselves and their agenda on others. Individuals of any type can do this; it just looks different depending on who and which type they are.



    Well, I will readily admit bias to certain kinds of behavior, including speaking without thinking, insisting on slavish adherance to rules regardless of outcome, habitual tardiness, and being unreliable. If people of a specific type tend to display one or more of these behaviors more than other types, odds are I will like fewer people of that type, NOT because of their type, but because of the behavior. Behavior is at most loosely tied to type, though, and many people learn to recognize the things they do that rub folks the wrong way, and work to curb it. Others don't. The best boss and the worst boss I have ever had have both been STJs. This might be simply because there are alot of STJs in management (is that stereotyping??). It does illustrate, however, how the same underlying type preferences can lead to very different behavior, results, and interactions with others.

    Put another way using your earlier analogy: dislike of rap music is not the same thing as bias against African-Americans.
    No. I'll try to clear that up later, possibly again,-faults on me but for right now no.


    Any assertion of lesser and greater in MBTI goes squarely against the original intent of Katherine Briggs and Isabel Briggs Myers who originated the system.
    People don't always adhere to systems, and subjective opinion is liable to- if agreed upon enough, replace and obscure objective 'fact'.

    Some NT's don't realize until they join a forum like thisi that there's nothing wrong with being NT. It's always eye-opening to see the perspectives of others.
    Does an SJ always have the same experience? Is the reason so few join simply disinterest, or is it because...
    something else?

    Bottom line: every type is stereotyped, oversimplified, joked about in ways more unkind than humorous, given backhanded compliments, outright insulted, etc. etc. I suppose this just means that SJs are no more (or less) special than anyone else.
    Maybe, and I have nothing to an extent against boxes- they are a good way to understand people/characteristics- baseline processes, but when the boxes are so small that the only thing that can be taken from them is recycled garbage, out of what I believe to be fear of that box invalidating the other box then I think there is an issue.

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