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  1. #121
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I posted that before I received your rep.
    Alright, my mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You miss my point. That's fine.

    Let me say the question though in another way. How could someone express both appreciation and frustration in a way you would deem "better"? More authentic.

    And do you think your point in this thread is revelatory?
    I don't think my point is absolutely relevatory, no.

    But I think that towards the state that it is ignored, it might as well be.

    While I do suspect some of ulterior motivations, ones that they are definitively aware of, I do not think that it is necessarily the case for all. And by no means, even in the people who I think do have an awareness of what I am suggesting that they do, are doing it for malicious purposes.

    It is just the state that the array of information is in.

    Opal's statement I actually have mixed ideas about. On one hand it acknowledges that there might be some sort of self reported bias- one that he should be able to talk about to the extent that he pleases, but on the other hand, I see it as an example, on a larger scale, of all the stereotypes pushed into the back of people's heads- pushed forewards partially- and then blanketly accepted. If his more obvious statement recieves that sort of acceptance, it sort of implies that similar will as well. I would much rather have someone say I FUCKING HATE SJ's, then I only hate SJ's when I have to deal with an aspect of them being themselves- if they just were not so much like what my idea of their nature happens to be- what I am furthering with this statement that their nature absolutely is- if they just were not so... them, then I would have no issue- if I could like them I would- so don't go pointing the finger guy's, I'm tolerant. There are implications behind those sorts of statements, similar to add an exception to an apology or an expression of adoration, an expression of goodwill mixed with an undertone of less than, or the other way around, it doesn't matter- it all serves the same purpose. A person beingg able to state the message that they want, but do so in such a palatable- yet vaguely noticed manner, that slips under the radar- seems acceptable, so then all the Nazi's feel that it is totally acceptable to follow this new friendly Hitler.

    Help me clarify further- I apologize if I am or am seeming to avoid any of your questions.

    But before anyone goes, but that's life! I don't see the same thing going on with other typology systems- it is different when there is an association of lesser and greater.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Fun in the Sun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evee View Post
    SJs are cool when they're not trying to stifle me or trying to make me feel like I'm a weirdo for being creative and original.

    Do NOT stifle me or try to make me feel like I don't belong.
    Hey, SJs can be creative too It's just a different kind of creative.

    Sorry you have felt stifled by them in the past. We're not all like that.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Fun in the Sun's Avatar
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    Where is the point in this thread where we sit around having a good time while drinking wine?
    Likes Hard, cascadeco, Kas, MyCupOfTea liked this post

  4. #124
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    I shouldn't have done this, for so many reasons.

  5. #125
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I shouldn't have done this, for so many reasons.
    I've enjoyed the points you've made, and Forever was trying to make some too, which I also enjoyed. You both just crossed wires, is all.

    What I hear you saying is that sometimes, concealed behind compliments or kind words, is a motive that's less than kind and is in fact, derogatory of the very thing that one purports to admire. That threads like these can sometimes veil that kind of purpose, or that intermingled therein are all kinds of opinions where one would have trouble perhaps separating those with good intention apart from those who's intention is less than honorable. Sometimes threads like these even stem from a kind of conceit about one's own "goodness", to varying degrees of even being aware that one's own bias being so clearly on display, and perpetuate limiting stereotypes. You're concerned about all that and wish to highlight it so that all are aware.

    How's that for a translation, does that address your concerns? Because you're right, all of those things can happen and be true.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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  6. #126
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I've enjoyed the points you've made, and Forever was trying to make some too, which I also enjoyed. You both just crossed wires, is all.

    What I hear you saying is that sometimes, concealed behind compliments or kind words, is a motive that's less than kind and is in fact, derogatory of the very thing that one purports to admire. That threads like these can sometimes veil that kind of purpose, or that intermingled therein are all kinds of opinions where one would have trouble perhaps separating those with good intention apart from those who's intention is less than honorable. Sometimes threads like these even stem from a kind of conceit about one's own "goodness", to varying degrees of even being aware that one's own bias being so clearly on display, and perpetuate limiting stereotypes. You're concerned about all that and wish to highlight it so that all are aware.

    How's that for a translation, does that address your concerns? Because you're right, all of those things can happen and be true.
    Yeah, I stand behind the points I was trying to make to an extent- don't get me wrong, but it was too presumptuous off of too little got excited and went ahead of myself, and now I just randomly feel shitty so I am done for now. Don't know, have to think about this. But I'll cut the drama for now until I can make it work. Thanks though.

  7. #127
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Yeah, I stand behind the points I was trying to make to an extent- don't get me wrong, but it was too presumptuous off of too little got excited and went ahead of myself, and now I just randomly feel shitty so I am done for now. Don't know, have to think about this. But I'll cut the drama for now until I can make it work. Thanks though.
    I hear you. If there's anyone you feel bad about potentially miscommunicating with, I'd heartily encourage you to just say exactly this to that person, either here or in PM. That should clear the air. I don't think anyone meant to cause anyone distress, here.

    All's well, and I'm glad you expanded your points and brought them home clearly.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #128
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I don't recall you being overly overjoyed when I suggested that you might be an ISFJ. Everyone pretends to be openly accepting of the equal value of all types, but at the end of the day no one wants to be an SJ. It is what it is. They distance themselves from the notion that they might be one by propogating these stereotypes, paying their dues by pretending to acknowledge the 'strengths' of these types, but doing so in a way that frequently is used as a way to contrast their self developed personas against those characteristics.
    ...I want to be an SJ. My first typology exposure was reading my mom's Keirsey books. At the time I tested ESTJ and I remember reading the description and thinking "Wow, that's pretty bad ass!" I was extremely pleased to be typed as someone who had natural leadership abilities, organization, and the ability to take charge and demand respect. Obviously, I'm not actually an ESTJ, but a lot of the positive attributes carry over to ESFJ (hence twinning with @EJCC). It actually wasn't until I joined the forum that I realized some people thought there was something wrong with being an SJ. I never thought they were better than any other type, but based on descriptions they seemed like an integral role in society. Let's be real, if everyone in the world were an SJ the world wouldn't be a spectacular place. But, a world without any SJs would also be a disaster.


    I'm an NP, not a boring uncreative SJ. But now it is a win win.)
    See, this is where the type influenced values comes into play. The fact that I am uncreative doesn't bother me in the slightest. Sure, it's embarrassing when I play pictionary or something and I can only draw stick figures. But does it actually bother me? Nope. I;m glad there are creative people in the world, but personally I would much rather have my shit together and be known as a responsible adult than be able to take award winning pictures. NPs don't know why anyone would want to be an SJ. Personally, I don't know why anyone would want to be an NP. I like having my head firmly attached to neck and down to earth, rather than up in the clouds.
    Friends, waffles, work

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  9. #129
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    ...I want to be an SJ. My first typology exposure was reading my mom's Keirsey books. At the time I tested ESTJ and I remember reading the description and thinking "Wow, that's pretty bad ass!" I was extremely pleased to be typed as someone who had natural leadership abilities, organization, and the ability to take charge and demand respect. Obviously, I'm not actually an ESTJ, but a lot of the positive attributes carry over to ESFJ (hence twinning with @EJCC). It actually wasn't until I joined the forum that I realized some people thought there was something wrong with being an SJ. I never thought they were better than any other type, but based on descriptions they seemed like an integral role in society. Let's be real, if everyone in the world were an SJ the world wouldn't be a spectacular place. But, a world without any SJs would also be a disaster.




    See, this is where the type influenced values comes into play. The fact that I am uncreative doesn't bother me in the slightest. Sure, it's embarrassing when I play pictionary or something and I can only draw stick figures. But does it actually bother me? Nope. I;m glad there are creative people in the world, but personally I would much rather have my shit together and be known as a responsible adult than be able to take award winning pictures. NPs don't know why anyone would want to be an SJ. Personally, I don't know why anyone would want to be an NP. I like having my head firmly attached to neck and down to earth, rather than up in the clouds.
    creative vs artistic ability are two different things. I think you're some what creative. but because you can't draw who cares? i can't. the point is, the whole SJs can't be creative is bullshit put out by the n's-who are comparable to white males thinking minorities are ruining their lives.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so
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  10. #130
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Showbread View Post
    See, this is where the type influenced values comes into play. The fact that I am uncreative doesn't bother me in the slightest. Sure, it's embarrassing when I play pictionary or something and I can only draw stick figures. But does it actually bother me? Nope. I;m glad there are creative people in the world, but personally I would much rather have my shit together and be known as a responsible adult than be able to take award winning pictures. NPs don't know why anyone would want to be an SJ. Personally, I don't know why anyone would want to be an NP. I like having my head firmly attached to neck and down to earth, rather than up in the clouds.
    I'm an ARTISAN type and I can't draw, so don't feel bad

    plus, you DO have artistic hobbies if I recall correctly... baking can be a definite form of delicious, edible artistry... and many types of textile making are also artistic just because they're practical arts doesn't mean that they don't require creativity... just a different type of creativity
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett
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