[MBTI General] ISTJ's: how can ENFP...?

[Nillerz]

ISTJ: The INTROVERTED SENSERS that THINK and JUDGE!!!

they scare me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

yeah...i would never make that claim. i've seen istj's be quite charming with people.

but yes...i agree there are things each are better at then the other and it all depends on the task at hand. i just honestly think getting along is easy in a work environment and the only real tweaking she should do is to let him have extra time to think things through and try to not to get too sidetracked or go off in tangents that would distract him....but it's really hard to say since i have no idea what kind of work they do or what kind of relationship they have.

I know you wouldn't, since claim is clearly unfriendly.
To tell you the truth I don't know what she needs since there is too little data to go into details. But from general standpoint I agree with you.

 

[Moiety]

ISTJ: The INTROVERTED SENSERS that THINK and JUDGE!!!

Wow...when you put it that way...





Seriously though I'm actually quite fascinated by ISTJs. Couldn't be more different than me, and that's exactly why.

 

[alcea rosea]

Thanks all for your answers.
(or am I supposed to thank ISTJ's )

I wonder if Te works with ISTJs?
My Te is pretty strong.

 

[d@v3]

Be competent.

I agree 100%!

When talking about something, use relevant, detailed information and facts (but don't be boring) . BE YOURSELF (whether you break rules or not ), do NOT be fake... other than that, you should be fine!

 

[BlackCat]

Remember, don't rely too heavily on MBTI. Find some common ground with said person, then you can easily get a relationship going.

 

[alcea rosea]

Remember, don't rely too heavily on MBTI. Find some common ground with said person, then you can easily get a relationship going.

A good advice but I mostly don't have too much similarity with ISTJ's whether I rely on MBTI or not.

With my Te question I meant that do ISTJ's like that I present informatin in organized way like
1)
2)
3)
and the result is
4)

Do they bother about direct orders (which I don't like to give by the way)?
Do they bother change in the last minute (why do I aks that, because I think they do)?
Do they care about connecting with the people they work with? Probably not?

What I've learn so far:
- be competent which I can be but prefer to be laid back
- be precise (?) , ok, I'll do that better in e-mail than when talking but I swear I'll try

I'll try to give orders in straightforward way. I try not to chit chat when on phone on official business. I try to express my vision very correctly so the ISTJ knows when I'm talking about the short term, long term and the possibilities (and you know, there are endless amount of possibilities).

But I won't try to be somebody else, because I am what I am.

 

[Lady_X]

yes...i know i'm not istj but i know them well
yes..step 1 step 2 step 3 end result 4... YES
no...try not to change plans...GOD they hate that! be confident in your decision first...they don't really do the brainstorming that we do and really don't appreciate it.
and i think they like a jovial sort of working relationship...professional is important but...they'll appreciate the occasional joke....surface chit chat..light hearted banter...but not too much and not when you're in the middle of a project.
and they really appreciate self reliance...we have a habit of asking a question before trying to figure it out on our own...try not to do that too much.

 

[NewEra]

Thanks all for your answers.
(or am I supposed to thank ISTJ's )

I wonder if Te works with ISTJs?
My Te is pretty strong.

Yeah, mine is too.

 

[alcea rosea]

Yeah, mine is too.

Hehe, I know.
But there are different kinds of Te.

What about straight orders? Do you mind doing what you are told without questioning it? What kind of ordering is best for ISTJ's? Hierarchy?

 

[Cimarron]

See? Even this post (that I quoted below) had better format than your other ones!

A good advice but I mostly don't have too much similarity with ISTJ's whether I rely on MBTI or not.

With my Te question I meant that do ISTJ's like that I present informatin in organized way like
1)
2)
3)
and the result is
4)
Sounds good, if it gets all the necessary information.
Are they bothered by direct orders (which I don't like to give by the way)? Usually not bothered, especially if they come from the boss. The boss says it, I do it. That's the way I am, anyways.
Are they bothered by change in the last minute (why do I aks that, because I think they do)? Please don't do that, it can throw me all off-balance. I know sometimes it can't be avoided, though.
Do they care about connecting with the people they work with? Probably not?
Like Erin said, it's nice to get along with your co-workers. But you still have to get your work done.
What I've learn so far:
- be competent which I can be but prefer to be laid back
- be precise (?) , ok, I'll do that better in e-mail than when talking but I swear I'll try

I'll try to give orders in straightforward way. I try not to chit chat when on phone on official business. I try to express my vision very correctly so the ISTJ knows when I'm talking about the short term, long term and the possibilities (and you know, there are endless amount of possibilities). This sounds good: put things into context.

But I won't try to be somebody else, because I am what I am. Good, I'm not saying change who you are, just trying to help you understand what I'm thinking.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Alcea rosea I have one question for you.

Are you the boss in this particular case?

 

[nozflubber]

haha, just listening to raz and everyone else list their stuff and erin rant in this thread makes me realize how much I really relate to ISTJs.... I hart erin and all ENFs but, shit, I'm there with all y'all.

Truth be told, I'd rather have a large group of ISTJs around me than any other type, even INTs. No nonsense is good sense.

ISTJs usually have a lot of resistance to new ideas.

As you should.... if I can't back up my INT bullshit you better damn well question that, too

 

[alcea rosea]

Alcea rosea I have one question for you.

Are you the boss in this particular case?

No, I'm not a boss of the ISTJ.
I have to run a project with one ISTJ (+ some other people).
That is why I asked the question. I want be so with the ISTJ that things are running smoothly. That's my main goal.

One more question: Does ISTJ do better with a person who s/he likes? Does liking somebody have an effect of their work and how they do in groups? I mean, if I get along with that ISTJ well, does s/he do better work for me?

Oh well - my limited skills of English are now causing some problems in trying to define this thing.

erinavery - Thanks for your comments on this thread! I appreciate it.

 

[raz]

I'll do better with work with you the more I can trust you to do something and I don't have to supervise you. That's actually one of the best feelings is when someone else can do what they're told and I don't have to babysit them, although I do like pointing things out to them.

 

[alcea rosea]

I'll do better with work with you the more I can trust you to do something and I don't have to supervise you. That's actually one of the best feelings is when someone else can do what they're told and I don't have to babysit them, although I do like pointing things out to them.

Yes, trust is probably a big issue.
One thing, thought, the ISTJ is not my boss either.

Thanks all for your advices!
Cimarron too.

...I't going to be as hard as I thought it would be.

 

[NewEra]

Hehe, I know.
But there are different kinds of Te.

What about straight orders? Do you mind doing what you are told without questioning it? What kind of ordering is best for ISTJ's? Hierarchy?

Personally I would rather tell other people what to do than follow orders myself. Many times I don't see what an authority figure of mine is doing, and I don't like doing things for them. But seeing that in a job, people tell you what to do, I like to know what exactly to do and when I have to get it done. Although it may appear that I do things without questioning it for a job, I don't like doing useless things for an organization. The type of ordering that is best is a list form, like a To-Do list.

Let me know if this helped, and any other questions you might have.

 

[Anja]

Alcea, when I'm in working mode I am pretty E. My husband is ISTJ. Here are a few things I try to remember when we are working on a project together.

He's a detail man but isn't very good at expressing his wants and needs. It's important for me to know when he says "Fix this" that he has in his head a mental list of the steps to follow and they generally aren't negotiable. There is one correct and efficient way to do something in his world.

So rather than assuming that my way will "fix" whatever needs fixing, I need to ask him to tell me step by step how he wants it done. The "hows" of things are as important to him as having something done.

When a job is completed I have learned not to expect much praise. It's accepted as matter-of-fact that I did what I was supposed to do in his values system. Because he knows me well and knows what makes me happy, eventually he'll remember that saying, "Thank you. That was a good job" is a good idea to keep me in cooperating mode.

He, on the other hand, seems to thrive on frequent and lavish praise and that spurs him on to stay on task.

Too much small talk or information will overwhelm him. When he hears, "We've gotta remember to do this, and this, and this." what he seems to hear in his head is "Right now!" and he goes on overload. So I try to dole out my own expectations in manageable pieces to him. He likes to be left alone to do his work.

 

[alcea rosea]

Personally I would rather tell other people what to do than follow orders myself. Many times I don't see what an authority figure of mine is doing, and I don't like doing things for them. But seeing that in a job, people tell you what to do, I like to know what exactly to do and when I have to get it done. Although it may appear that I do things without questioning it for a job, I don't like doing useless things for an organization. The type of ordering that is best is a list form, like a To-Do list.

Let me know if this helped, and any other questions you might have.

Thanks, it really helps!
I think the point there is that bolded up there. I have seen this in that ISTJ. I asked him to do something and he was almost doing it straight away. He does question things if he doesn't think it'll work. But that's totally ok. I can change the way I'm going in 1second. So, I don't mind about being right, I just mind about things going smoothly.

I heard him talking about his boss and it seems he respects authorities quite a bit (I don't by the way ). I'm not his boss but he has to do things for the project I'm working in, so I need to ask him to do stuff.)

I was wondering how to ask him to do things:
Is it straightforward way: Do this and this?
Or does he want explantaion: Do this because of this?
(I myself need to always understand why I do things.)

Or would he appreciate me putting it this way:
Would you be so kind and do this as soon as you have time for it?

Alcea, when I'm in working mode I am pretty E. My husband is ISTJ. Here are a few things I try to remember when we are working on a project together.

He's a detail man but isn't very good at expressing his wants and needs. It's important for me to know when he says "Fix this" that he has in his head a mental list of the steps to follow and they generally aren't negotiable. There is one correct and efficient way to do something in his world.

So rather than assuming that my way will "fix" whatever needs fixing, I need to ask him to tell me step by step how he wants it done. The "hows" of things are as important to him as having something done.

When a job is completed I have learned not to expect much praise. It's accepted as matter-of-fact that I did what I was supposed to do in his values system. Because he knows me well and knows what makes me happy, eventually he'll remember that saying, "Thank you. That was a good job" is a good idea to keep me in cooperating mode.

He, on the other hand, seems to thrive on frequent and lavish praise and that spurs him on to stay on task.

Too much small talk or information will overwhelm him. When he hears, "We've gotta remember to do this, and this, and this." what he seems to hear in his head is "Right now!" and he goes on overload. So I try to dole out my own expectations in manageable pieces to him. He likes to be left alone to do his work.

Thanks Anja!

Let's see, I bolded some things in your post up there.
How's of things, yes - I see the importance of that.

And praise - yes, that's a bit surprising for ISTJ's as I think of them but I can do that. I mean, I'm pretty good in inspiring people even if my inspiring style might overhelm him pretty fast. Ok, I'll try to keep that one under control... So, I need to give him praise of the good job his done but not just because of nothing.

It's also becoming more and more clear to me that I will need to keep my Ne really well in control when speaking with him. So, always before speaking to him, I need to rearrange my thoughts in Te way so I can state them to him very clearly.

I've seen that he really likes our meetings when things are prepared and he sees the agenda first. But with spontaneous things, it's not very good because my Ne gets totally wild in seeing all the possibilites and I tend to think out loud. So, I can see that he doesn't understand that I'm merely seeing the possibilities and thinking options before I'm ready to do anything.

I can control my Ne pretty well when I'm prepared and the situation is not spontaneous action thing. So, I just need to be prepared with him and even with the spontaneous situations I need to arrange my thoughts before talking to him. That is going to be really hard for me!!

And boy I'm happy that I have trained my Te since the day I realized I'm the most messiest and disorganized person of all. The reality is, in these days, that my Te is probably much stronger that with an average ENFP althought it just might me my own imagination as usual!

But still, many potentially dangerous situations ahead....

 

[Cimarron]

Sounds pretty good so far, Alcea Rosea. Hope things go well on this project.

Anja, you think so? I mean, I guess the praise "energizes" me, but I would've done the work anyway. Wouldn't I?