[MBTI General] ISTJ's: how can ENFP...?

[raz]

yes, friends and coworkers is great. I'm actually realizing with some ENFPs that I enjoy their company much more when we've spent a lot of time apart. Maybe it's like too much of a good thing or something? I just know when I see some ENFPs daily, I like talking to them and all, but if I see them like, once a week, then they're suddenly a really good friend of mine.

 

[Cimarron]

Yes, From what I know ISTJ really do not like when people say things before they think things through.
They will probably not going to tell you that in your face but I think that this can be quite annoying to them.

I guess to me, "thinking it through before you speak"=taking it seriously. So if you don't, you imply you're not taking it seriously, and therefore I won't take you seriously, either. Unless we're friends, or if I know you come up with good ideas, in which cases I might automatically give it more weight in my mind.

And this is a good quote:

I actually like chatty people because it takes a lot of the conversational burden off me. The exception is if it is whining/lazy/mean gossip/drama

That's what I meant in previous posts.

 

[simpleamazement]

Okay, here we go:

Give him the facts, provide documentation, be practical, present things step by step, give him time to think about ideas, try to simplify things and use logic. ISTJs usually have a lot of resistance to new ideas.

 

[Virtual ghost]

^^ see...they can totally get along well as friends or coworkers.

I never claimed that they can't. It is just that ENFP can be too fast and superficially by ISTJ standards. Nothing more.

 

[raz]

I never claimed that they can't. It is just that ENFP can be too fast and superficially by ISTJ standards. Nothing more.

Too fast, period or too fast at work?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I guess to me, "thinking it through before you speak"=taking it seriously. So if you don't, you imply you're not taking it seriously, and therefore I won't take you seriously, either. Unless we're friends, or if I know you come up with good ideas, in which cases I might automatically give it more weight in my mind.

But you are not me.
Because of Ni I can quikly see where each answers will lead.
I always think things through before I speak. Even if I am not serious.
Because of this I can create an argument/statemen that will be more piercing.

 

[raz]

But you are not me.
Because of Ni I can quikly see where each answers will lead.
I always think things through before I speak. Even if I am not serious.
Because of this I can create an argument/statemen that will be more piercing.

I always thought I was just socially inept because I had to prepare what came out of my mouth all the time. I had to rehearse it in my head for a few seconds before I said it. Is that an introvert thing?

 

[Lady_X]

I never claimed that they can't. It is just that ENFP can be too fast and superficially by ISTJ standards. Nothing more.

damn...the enfp isn't superficial! there are totally different approaches to work situations but unless he's her boss i don't see why she needs to change hers.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I always thought I was just socially inept because I had to prepare what came out of my mouth all the time. I had to rehearse it in my head for a few seconds before I said it. Is that an introvert thing?

It could be, But I think that there are diifferences between introverts.
I think that ISTJs and INTJs are most likely to do it.
Personally I don't think that there is something wrong with this. I think that this way you only make sure that others will understand you better.
Also I am not sure what you mean by few seconds. I make choices in a very short time so I don't get negative points.
But if I want to say some complex opinion of mine there is no way I can say it just like that.

On the other hand ENFPs can say things before they think about them.
Some time ago there was a thread that they have problem thinking if they don't say it right away.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah..my thought process is pretty fast and i move from thing to the next pretty quickly if i don't express my thoughts when i think them i'll be on to something else and forget.

 

[raz]

Well, I mean, it's not as bad in a one on one conversation, well, somewhat. In conversations with 2+ people at least, and sometimes with one other person, I take like 10-15 seconds thinking about my response to something, preparing what I want to say, how I want to say it, and manipulating my response based on how I think it might be perceived until I come to something that I think is worth saying.

That's why I hate conversations where I have to think quickly. I'm making judgments based off an incredibly small amount of thought, and if I were given a little bit of time to think about it, I would've had MUCH more of an impact. There are plenty times where I have a conversation with someone, I say something fucking stupid, and then 30 minutes later after I've left them, and I'm standing somewhere alone, I all of a sudden come up with this brilliant response. It just makes me avoid conversations because I know how much I suck at coming up with impactful things on the spot.

 

[Virtual ghost]

damn...the enfp isn't superficial! there are totally different approaches to work situations but unless he's her boss i don't see why she needs to change hers.

Good communication between coworker is in everybodys interests as far as I know.

 

[Lady_X]

that's got to be an e/i thing or is it to do with p/j ?

 

[Lady_X]

Good communication between coworker is in everybodys interests as far as I know.

i know...frustrating that you're not understanding. i'm saying it is my opinion that they get along together quite well just as they are. and you are wrong about enfp's being superficial...just not true.

 

[Virtual ghost]

that's got to be an e/i thing or is it to do with p/j ?

Why not both?

Introverts are more reserved and Js are not sponatneous.

 

[raz]

So INFJs, INTJs and ISFJs have the same problem?

 

[Virtual ghost]

i know...frustrating that you're not understanding. i'm saying it is my opinion that they get along together quite well just as they are. and you are wrong about enfp's being superficial...just not true.

That depends on how you define superficial.
What I am mean Is that ENFP can be superficial in when there is a lot of details in play. Or when you need to do a thorough analysis.
Also they can get annoyed if a task is for very introverted person. So their conncentration can drop with time.

 

[Lady_X]

i understand, that's true but it's unfair to say that one approach is superior to the other. we may not take as long to think through a problem but that does not mean we won't come up with good solution.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So INFJs, INTJs and ISFJs have the same problem?

I am not sure about the Fs. Since they are more likely to try to get along because of Fe. But to some degree they probably have it.
IxTPs probably also are familiar with acting like this.

i understand, that's true but it's unfair to say that one approach is superior to the other. we may not take as long to think through a problem but that does not mean we won't come up with good solution.

That once again depends upon what the actual task is.
I don't know why that would be unfair. Since you can make an argument that we suck at jobs that are people oriented and you would be generally correct.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah...i would never make that claim. i've seen istj's be quite charming with people.

but yes...i agree there are things each are better at then the other and it all depends on the task at hand. i just honestly think getting along is easy in a work environment and the only real tweaking she should do is to let him have extra time to think things through and try to not to get too sidetracked or go off in tangents that would distract him....but it's really hard to say since i have no idea what kind of work they do or what kind of relationship they have.