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  1. #21
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    If you're on a busy street, you might try Jayrunning!


    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I don't know about you, but I think Jaywalking rocks!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Fuent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Oh, okay
    Haha nice...

    Good call.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    INTP... I think not.

  3. #23
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    Sometimes, rules don't make any sense and they ought to be broken. For example, in Buffalo, New York, it is against the rules for bus drivers to inform other bus drivers that they are running late and to please wait to pick up passengers. Sometimes, because bus drivers are so eager to follow the rules, passengers end up out in the cold for up to an hour waiting for their connecting bus. And there are times when they reach the corner where they have to wait, just to see the connecting bus go through the light and go bye bye.
    How annoying is that... just because of mindless rule-following.
    What you've given here is a reason why that rule shouldn't exist. You make a good point, and they ought to look into the efficiency of it. At least, from an amateur observer, that's how it looks.

    But you haven't given a reason why that rule should exist--in other words, the reason why the rule was created in the first place. So we're only seeing one side of the issue here.

    (I'm not picking on you. Just trying to bring in a little discussion. )
    Last edited by Cimarron; 12-17-2008 at 10:14 PM. Reason: it follows
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #24
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    I don't have any idea of why this rule exists. I asked the bus driver, and he was clueless, too. I'm sure that there was a reason for it at some point, probably years ago, when buses ran a whole lot more frequently and, if you missed your connecting bus, the next one would come in five to ten minutes, rather than in 45 minutes to an hour.
    Anyway, it's just a guess about a bad rule.
    I did ask once at a meeting of the transit company why the bus schedules were not designed so that people would make their connecting buses, instead of miss them. The person said that was too difficult of a job. I would think that a good computer programmer would be able to design a more user-friendly schedule.
    Then the silly rule would cease to be an issue.
    I'm sure I could find some other rules that I would be able to break (since I'm not a bus driver and can't violate that one!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    What you've given here is a reason why that rule shouldn't exist. You make a good point, and they ought to look into the efficiency of it. At least, from an amateur observer, that's how it looks.

    But you haven't given a reason why that rule should exist--in other words, the reason why the rule was created in the first place. So we're only seeing one side of the issue here.

    (I'm not picking on you. Just trying to bring in a little discussion. )
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  5. #25
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    To all types:

    Do you think society expresses the belief that "breaking rules is cool," sometimes even if they wouldn't break those rules themselves?

    Why do you think this is so?
    I think society is fascinated with rule-breakers because so many people don't dare break any rules out of fear or unwillingness to accept the consequences. So we glorify such people in books, movies, etc.

    I think we'd do better as a society to train children (and adults!) to freely question pointless rules, to disobey rules that shouldn't exist, but to respect the ones that exist for good reason.

  6. #26
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    I think society is fascinated with rule-breakers because so many people don't dare break any rules out of fear or unwillingness to accept the consequences. So we glorify such people in books, movies, etc.

    I think we'd do better as a society to train children (and adults!) to freely question pointless rules, to disobey rules that shouldn't exist, but to respect the ones that exist for good reason.
    I like this, it fits with my rules in life, haha.

    The difficulty with this approach though - admirable as it is - is that children aren't knowledgeable enough to understand what rules are pointless or not. So in practical terms you have to do the "just because" thing, and then try and correct as they grow up. So present them the rules "don't steal" and later try and educate them in society's ethics and morals so that they can determine for themselves whether they follow them when they reach adulthood. No easy answers....

  7. #27
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I like this, it fits with my rules in life, haha.

    The difficulty with this approach though - admirable as it is - is that children aren't knowledgeable enough to understand what rules are pointless or not. So in practical terms you have to do the "just because" thing, and then try and correct as they grow up. So present them the rules "don't steal" and later try and educate them in society's ethics and morals so that they can determine for themselves whether they follow them when they reach adulthood. No easy answers....

    Well, right, obviously very young kids aren't going to always making the best choices. I guess I meant more that we'd do well to train children to develop critical thinking skills.

    I'm thinking that children could be taught to at least attempt to think things through instead of thinking of rules as being something you obey in order to avoid punishment (which can lead to kids purposely disobeying rules simply because they exist, or trying to see how much they can "get away with" for the sheer fun of being sneaky). If a child thinks a certain rule is worthless, then he could be given the opportunity to modify it by explaining to parents why it doesn't work, as well as propose an alternative action that would accomplish the same thing. If it's reasonable, the adults can choose to go with the child's proposal, but they'd still have veto power in case the kid is full of Bad Ideas.

  8. #28
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Well, right, obviously very young kids aren't going to always making the best choices. I guess I meant more that we'd do well to train children to develop critical thinking skills.

    I'm thinking that children could be taught to at least attempt to think things through instead of thinking of rules as being something you obey in order to avoid punishment (which can lead to kids purposely disobeying rules simply because they exist, or trying to see how much they can "get away with" for the sheer fun of being sneaky). If a child thinks a certain rule is worthless, then he could be given the opportunity to modify it by explaining to parents why it doesn't work, as well as propose an alternative action that would accomplish the same thing. If it's reasonable, the adults can choose to go with the child's proposal, but they'd still have veto power in case the kid is full of Bad Ideas.
    I suppose we have to add to this the difference between criminal rules and civil rules.

    It's easy to understand why one shouldn't kill a fellow human for no good reason (if for no other, it could lead to us being killed or punished in response). But less easy to understand why one shouldn't park without paying for a ticket. Or speed when the conditions are good and the driver is alert.

    These areas are grey for mature adults, let alone youngsters.

  9. #29
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    If you thought that was bad Walking, on larger bases overseas they aren't allowed to give anyone the schedule the bus runs. Meaning you have to stand at the stop and HOPE it didn't just take off on its hour and a half route before refueling and circling to pick you up. You have no way of knowing when to meet the bus.
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  10. #30
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I suppose we have to add to this the difference between criminal rules and civil rules.

    It's easy to understand why one shouldn't kill a fellow human for no good reason (if for no other, it could lead to us being killed or punished in response). But less easy to understand why one shouldn't park without paying for a ticket. Or speed when the conditions are good and the driver is alert.

    These areas are grey for mature adults, let alone youngsters.
    well, yeah, okay, I guess I'm just wondering aloud about why pointless rulers exist if they don't help anyone, and I'm thinking if people can be trained to be more critical about what they accept as worthy of obedience, maybe the people to make and enforce rules wouldn't be so inclined to make pointless rules in the first place. Or not.

    Probably not. This is why I think it would be a Very Bad Idea to appoint me as world dictator.

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