[MBTI General] ESTJ vs. ISTJ

[PinkIceTD]

My sister is ESTJ. We get along just fine as long as I:

1. don't oppose her point of view

If we see things differently, which 90% of the time we usually do, we will end up arguing until I concede, don't care, or leave. Once she believes she's right, she will not let up and she MUST have the last word.

2. Don't try to convince her about anything

Plain and simple because it won't happen. It's her way, end of story. (Unless it can be proved otherwise with reason that SHE deems worthy)

My ISTJ friend and hardly ever argue because I guess even though he might be as rigid in his opinions or way of doing things he doesn't try to push them on me or he doesn't express them as vehemently. I don't know if it's because he's an introvert or because he doesn't feel comfortable enough to be that way, yet.

I noticed major similarities and contrasts between the way her and my ISTJ friend get things done. Both will not do anything without analyzing it to death. But my sister does this out loud. I can sit there and she will think out loud for an hour or two about whether she should buy something, do something, eat something, etc or not. My ISTJ friend will just sit quietly and (seemingly) randomly he will finally tell me what he's concluded about something we talked about hours or days before. It's like I get the last paragraph to whatever he's been thinking, with my sister i get the whole story.

My sister will not do anything if she can't predict the outcome favorably, and she's pretty pessimistic, like my friend. Except my sister will tell me why, and my friend will just tell me the answer.

I've noticed that in social situations where she doesn't know anyone she's sometimes shy or quiet, but people easily misinterpret that as being stuck up or rude mostly because of her facial expression or her conversation is kind distant. My ISTJ has told me that people read him wrong all the time. The difference between them is that my sister wants people to know that she isn't being mean, aloof, whatever. On the other hand my friend prefers for people not to know that he might be really feeling embarrassed, shy, nervous, etc.

My point in this post is that I find it interesting how similar they both seem, but what a difference the E seems to make. Out of the two the ISTJ is easier to get along with. If my sister wasn't my sister I don't think we would get along as friends. I would feel like I'm being bossed around.

 

[Cimarron]

Man...I just wish there were more ESTJs on the board to tell us about their lives. My little sister "tests" as ESxJ, with x = borderline. We do kind of think things through in the same way, and when one of us makes a decision, the other observes it and usually says "makes sense." She seems to get along fine with friends, though sometimes her bluntness comes out the wrong way.

My grandfather, on the other hand, is a hard-to-deal-with ES_J.

 

[Cimarron]

Any more thoughts?

 

[PinkIceTD]

Any more thoughts?

not really from me...I guess there aren't enough (any?) ESTJs on the board or ISTJs interested to make a conversation....oh well.

 

[alicia91]

I know a couple of ESTJs and several ISTJs. They are all very different of course (as all people are), and I try not to put them in boxes. I get a long quite well with both and I tend to see their 'rigidity' as not a negative thing but more that they have well-established philosophies, values, morals and they generally consistently live by it. Yeah, I can't challenge that (brick wall!) - but why should I? To change their minds, to make them see other sides you must present it logically, but then again, that's the only way to convince me too so it's something I already do.

 

[JonJT]

I'm close friends with a girl who tests as ESTJ. I've always had good chemistry with her and flirt with her whenever I see her. She's never come across as argumentative or pig headed as the OPs sister although, she has had problems with depression and that may have an effect on her MBTI results.

 

[d@v3]

My my sister is ENTJ (and so is her fiance) and my father is ENTJ, and my other sister and my mother are also Exxx. [I swear was adopted]

They are ALL disorganized and cannot be on time to a meeting if their life depended on it.

Anyway, when any of us disagree (especially with my future brother in law) we kind of just walk away or change the subject. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong though, if they have proof.

 

[EJCC]

Man...I just wish there were more ESTJs on the board to tell us about their lives.

That's my cue!! :hi: Whut up?

I have an ISTJ cousin, and she's a lot more serious than I am. I'm not sure if that's just the I or not, but I tend to be a goofball, and she just shakes her head at me. Her sense of humor is also a lot darker than mine. However, she's even firmer in her beliefs than me. I'd like to think that if someone gave me enough credible evidence, I would change my mind on an issue, but with my cousin... we always end up agreeing to disagree.

But yeah... speaking of Cimarron's quote, if there's anything you need to know about my life that would help with this discussion, I'd be glad to pitch in. (That's probably all I can do at this point, since my experience with ISTJs is limited to what I said in my previous story.)

 

[Cimarron]

I have an ISTJ cousin, and she's a lot more serious than I am. I'm not sure if that's just the I or not, but I tend to be a goofball, and she just shakes her head at me.

Yeah, that does seem to be true. Though I think a large part of it is the Introversion barrier.

 

[Valiant]

My my sister is ENTJ (and so is her fiance) and my father is ENTJ, and my other sister and my mother are also Exxx. [I swear was adopted]

They are ALL disorganized and cannot be on time to a meeting if their life depended on it.

Anyway, when any of us disagree (especially with my future brother in law) we kind of just walk away or change the subject. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong though, if they have proof.

Doesn't sound very ENTJ-like to not be on time Maybe you have your J and P confused. J-people are usually structured = on time.

 

[anii]

My oldest friend is an ESTJ (go figure) and my brother is an ISTJ. I only have two IRL examples to compare, but I have observed some differences.

First the similarities:
- both like to be in charge and have risen to leadership positions in their occupations
- both tend to be more traditional and "rules" oriented
- both are organized with an air of no-nonsense competence about them
- both are *the* go-to people in a crisis

The I is very serious, controlled, and somewhat controlling. He suffers from hypertension and sometimes seems on the brink of blowing a gasket. His wife (ESFJ) and her friends call him "the male Martha Stewart" because everything has to be *perfect*. He is very protective of his family and his family space, even against his own siblings. (now my older brother the istp is a bit of reckless and loose cannon; but me (infp)? I'm perfectly harmless ).

The E cannot be alone for long periods of time. She craves company. She can move to a new city not knowing anyone and within a couple of weeks she'll be in a bookclub, and will have skating buddies, diving buddies, camping and hiking buddies, and watching football down at the pub buddies. Are these folks close friends? Of course not, but she can walk into a roomful of strangers and manage to find someone to talk to at length about anything. Every time. I used to envy this but now it just amuses me, exhausting as it is.

PS - Neither of them seem to enjoy the internet very much.

 

[d@v3]

Doesn't sound very ENTJ-like to not be on time Maybe you have your J and P confused. J-people are usually structured = on time.

Well, don't E's tend to get distracted? Maybe that's why they are always late!

 

[EJCC]

Well, don't E's tend to get distracted? Maybe that's why they are always late!

Huh... That has some truth to it... I don't know about other ExxJs, but I get distracted by people (though not necessarily things - so "always late" is an exaggeration). I'll be on my way somewhere, exactly on schedule, and I see someone I know, then presto! Five or ten minutes late.

 

[d@v3]

lol classic example: Your on your way to a meeting, the phone rings as you are walking out the door. You COULD let the answering machine get it.

Are you saying you are going to ignore it? I find that HARD to believe!
The Exxx in this house would fight over the phone and yell at me when I don't answer it! I'm usually like "what the heck, if it's important they leave a message, OR call the cell phone!"

 

[PinkIceTD]

Yeah, that does seem to be true. Though I think a large part of it is the Introversion barrier.

yeah my sister is pretty silly most of the time.

 

[SillySapienne]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

I have been in a weird mood this morning, my entire family happens to be home right now, and I am feeling the love!!!

I woke up at around 7, (freezing my ass off), and I heard my (ESFJ) mom bustling about upstairs, I called her and told her to come downstairs and give me a hug, and she did!!! (I'm usually not up this early).

My ESTJ sister was up, too, (she wakes up at 6:30 am, everyday), and after her morning walk and cigarette, she called me to the living room to help her and I warily approached her, (she can be :horor: in the morning) to find that she was taking pictures of clothes to sell on E-bay (sp?), which she needed me to help model. This is lol-worthy because she works freelance in production and is currently not on a job, yet finding alternative ways to do what she loves, which is... make money!!!

Anyhow, my other (IsFP) sister woke up the latest and she and I were chatting in the kitchen while she was making us some tea, and she and I hug and tell each other we love each other and I tell her her skin looks extra radiant and then she tells me about how there are special foods that help bring out the outer beauty in you, I laugh at her and tell her I am not interested. Meanwhile, my ESTJ sister is in the family room on the computer posting her new pics and I told my (IsFP) sister that I was going to go fuck with her and went in the adjoining room and gave her an unsuspecting hug, which she responded with a violent flinch and a terse yet slightly joking reprimand, "Don't touch me!!!"

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!!

That is my ESTJ sister for ya!!!

Sooooooooo full of



(Random post, sorry)

 

[SillySapienne]

I don't really know any ISTJs, but my sister rarely ever relaxes, as in, SHE IS ALWAYS DOING SOMETHING!!!

She gets more "done" in a day than I do in a couple of months, for realz.

How are we related!?!?

 

[NewEra]

I'm thinking that the E's are more friendly and outgoing, but that is the obvious answer.

Well, don't E's tend to get distracted? Maybe that's why they are always late!

I always get distracted too, and I'm ISTJ. I have bad powers of concentration, and I don't work as hard as I should. I'm more of a slacker, UNLESS I get really motivated. In which case I try really hard after being motivated. I work best in short bursts of energy.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

lol classic example: Your on your way to a meeting, the phone rings as you are walking out the door. You COULD let the answering machine get it.

Are you saying you are going to ignore it? I find that HARD to believe!
The Exxx in this house would fight over the phone and yell at me when I don't answer it! I'm usually like "what the heck, if it's important they leave a message, OR call the cell phone!"

My ENTJ sister never answers the phone! EVER.

Basically, from what I've seen with her and some other xxTJ people, is that they have their own schedule. Especially my ENTJ sister; she'll get there on time, but if she has something else on her mind....well, that comes first.
Stubbornness, that's what it is :B

 

[d@v3]

Ok, so maybe I posted a bad example! Personally, I ALWAYS answer my cell phone and it's ALWAYS turned on- if I need it off, I temporarily put it on silent. The house phone, I figure, if it's important they'll leave a message, and if it's important and it is someone who knows me, they will call the cell phone!