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  1. #181
    Senior Member AutumnReverie's Avatar
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    I second that. I am so relieved to know that I'm not the only person who has a checklist (and who actually has "find a boyfriend" at the bottom of that list). In fact one of the reasons I never dated in highschool was because I didn't consider it a high priority. I was busy doing other things and, from observing my friends relationships, I didn't see the appeal in gaining such an experience. I also thought it was fairly improbable that I would meet someone at that age and grow with them as we got older and remain together. I'm in my early 20s right now, and I have to know who I am in my life before I can share with that someone else. I would also like to have college completed, have a decent career lined up, etc. before getting married.

    I'd also like to say (and I greatly suspect this applies to some of the frequent posters on this thread) that although we ISTJs get deeply tangled up in the cost/benefit analysis of love (boy was that a perfect description by the way) we really do share that which is common to all humans-a deep need to connect intimately with people. That is why this thread was even started - an ISTJ felt a hole deep down and knew it needed to be fixed somehow.
    Yes I agree. We tend to approach the whole thing very practically, but that doesn't mean that we don't want to connect with people. Personally, I do want to have a deep and meaningful relationship with someone and get married...in the future, but not right now.

    ...personal growth, financial stability, education etc before I undertake any risk.
    Exactly. I need to have all these things in order first and then I'll start my pursuit of a husband.

    I'm so glad to hear other ISTJs thoughts on this. Whenever I tell some one that I'm singly by choice, it's like they don't believe that anyone would actually do that. I feel like a lot of people in my age range feel the need to be in a relationship for the sake of "being in a relationship" (not being alone, and having some sort of validation that they are loved). I don't feel this way, because I'm a very independent person and my self-worth isn't based on another person. Disclaimer: I'm not assuming that everyone who is in a relationship feels this way, in fact, I know many who are in relationship simply for the fact that they love their partner (obviously). It's just that many people I know have felt depressed or un-loved because they were single or put a great amount of effort into finding someone (a significant other) so that they no longer feel that way; and I do not nor have ever felt that way personally.

    However at the moment, the "right time" for pursuing a boyfriend/husband, in my mind, is somewhere around 25+ years old. When I hit that age, I'll make "romantic love" more of priority. That's my plan, anyway. I wouldn't be opposed to being in a relationship now, but it's not something that I'm making an effort to actively pursue at the moment because I have other priorities and I'm content with being single right now.
    Last edited by AutumnReverie; 05-08-2009 at 05:58 PM.
    After all,
    you're my wonderwall...

    {listen: }

  2. #182
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    The reason why it's so important is that since it begets reproduction, it's evolutionarily necessary. Most of the individuals that did not allow themselves to fall in love and/or did not act - at least a little - irrationaly were, on average, less likely to have progeny, and thus most of humanity has been generated out of people that were willing to take that risk.

    I will also add that it's better not to fool yourself into a position of superiority due to the fact that your friends are in a relationship and you aren't. It would be akin to an homeless person feeling superior to a professional because the latter has payed for his beautiful house.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #183
    Senior Member AutumnReverie's Avatar
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    I will also add that it's better not to fool yourself into a position of superiority due to the fact that your friends are in a relationship and you aren't. It would be akin to an homeless person feeling superior to a professional because the latter has payed for his beautiful house.
    I don't feel superior and I wasn't referring specifically to my friends. I have much respect for them and their relationships, and if I felt that they were merely in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship then I would say something to them about it.

    In fact, when I've asked them about some of their past relationship choices they are the ones who said that they were only in the relationship because they were alone or desperate or felt like everyone had someone except them. So my conclusion about many people in my age range (who I have observed and/or spoken to) was not just based on assumption, it was based on many girls in my age range telling me themselves how they felt -- in a relationship, post-relationship, or being single and wishing they were in a relationship. Obviously I can't speak for all college-aged females, but just the ones who have come to me with their relationship drama/problems.


    The reason why it's so important is that since it begets reproduction, it's evolutionarily necessary. Most of the individuals that did not allow themselves to fall in love and/or did not act - at least a little - irrationaly were, on average, less likely to have progeny, and thus most of humanity has been generated out of people that were willing to take that risk.
    I don't think any ISTJ in this thread said that romantic relationship isn't important, and I'm sure that we all realize that it begets reproduction. I believe the general consensus of a lot of ISTJs on this thread is that it just isn't as high of a priority for us right now. If I didn't think it was important then it wouldn't be on my "checklist" at all. But it is on there (just after things like "personal growth", "education", "career", etc.) and I look forward to getting married and having a family in the future.

    Most of the other ISTJs have already articulated how I feel fairly well, so I'll quote

    This:
    The making myself emotionally vulnerable part keeps me away from pretty much every girl. I weigh their impact on me before I do anything. If I feel threatened by their presence at all, I stand aside.
    I agree. Even though a lot of it has to do with priorities, there is definitely a fear of emotionally vulnerability there.

    And this:
    I'm not married, I'm currently single, and I'd probably like being in a relationship, but I don't mind being single.
    Exactly. I wouldn't mind being in a relationship right now, but I don't mind being single ...just because being in a relationship is not my number one priority/goal at the moment.

    This is my point exactly. I'm fine with my life the way it is. I know I'm not a risk taker and I'm fine with that too. And it's not neccessarily the risk taking that's a problem, it's the change. I'm not big on change unless I can predict the outcome and it's in my favor.

    I believe if I truly wanted to be in a relationship, I could be. This need for order in my life has prevented me from doing so thus far. I like to have my bases covered before proceeding with anything, else I feel out of control. There's girls in my life that I could definitely go out with, I just don't feel it's the right time. I don't like to do things half-way and I just don't want to get into it unless I can give it my all. If I can't finish what I start, then it's all just a waist of time for everyone involved.
    Again, agreed completely. I don't like doing things half-way either and I would like to have all of my bases covered first. And like this original poster said, I believe if I truly wanted to be in a relationship right now, I could be. Perhaps that's a bit arrogant, but I don't intend it to sound that way.


    I understand that this may be hard for other types to understand, but honestly "it's not a high priority right now" and "I don't necessarily need it in my life at the moment to feel content with my life" isn't me feeling superior over all those people actually in relationships (or over people who actually have it as a high priority), it's just how I (and apparently many other ISTJs) feel. I'm not saying that I don't go on dates or that I would reject someone who I think I could have a future with just because I met the person "off-schedule. I just don't place much importance on it right now, actively put effort forth to achieve that goal, or feel "bad" that I haven't had that experience yet.
    After all,
    you're my wonderwall...

    {listen: }

  4. #184
    Senior Member batumi's Avatar
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    I definitely understand what you are saying - but at times I have pushed myself to be in a relationship for the growth. It is a place where one can truly experience personal growth.

    Also relationships can make you remember your alone times with such lovely affection.

  5. #185
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Well, the thread says is "love" worth the trouble. Just because your in a relationship doesn't mean you are actually in "love" with the other person, right? So, in other words, you can be in a relationship, but it takes time to get to the "love" stage.... at least, that is my opinion. So how do you know if it is worth it or not if you have never gotten to that stage?

    So, I wouldn't mind being in a "relationship", because I estimate that by the time I'm in "love" [which would probably take a couple years] I will be done with school and in the workforce.

    There I go with trying to plan things again!

    Besides, being in a relationship teaches you things, such as how to accept a person for who they are. Now, I know we all learned that in kindergarten, but I think it is one of those things where you have to experience it before you "feel" it... maybe?
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #186
    Senior Member AutumnReverie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    Well, the thread says is "love" worth the trouble. Just because your in a relationship doesn't mean you are actually in "love" with the other person, right? So, in other words, you can be in a relationship, but it takes time to get to the "love" stage.... at least, that is my opinion. So how do you know if it is worth it or not if you have never gotten to that stage?
    Ah, the original question. I agree. I can't answer the question of whether or not "love" is worth it, since I've never been "in love" before and wouldn't know. But I think that "love" is worth it, and I look forward to when I get to that stage in my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    So, I wouldn't mind being in a "relationship", because I estimate that by the time I'm in "love" [which would probably take a couple years] I will be done with school and in the workforce.

    There I go with trying to plan things again!
    Haha yeah, same here. I estimate that by the time I'm in "love" I will be done with school and have my career established (or on the way to being established).

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    Besides, being in a relationship teaches you things, such as how to accept a person for who they are. Now, I know we all learned that in kindergarten, but I think it is one of those things where you have to experience it before you "feel" it... maybe?
    Yes, possibly. I agree, I think that a relationship has the potential to teach you things or reaffirm things you already knew to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by batumi View Post
    I definitely understand what you are saying - but at times I have pushed myself to be in a relationship for the growth. It is a place where one can truly experience personal growth.
    I would say that it is one of many possible places where one could experience personal growth. Personally, I believe one can experience just as much personal growth by oneself. And the opposite of your statement could be true as well, one could experience negative personal growth (...or would you call that, personal stagnation or personal regression?) in a relationship.

    I guess it all depends upon the specific experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    ^ Sounds like me! Never had a relationship so at least your not alone. Those questions do suck and it's really nobody else's business, although, I can see why they would be curious. So when someone asks me (depending on who it is [usually mother or sister]) the conversation usually goes like this:

    Mother: "When are you going to find a girlfriend?"
    Me: "Never"
    Mother: "Are you ever getting married?"
    Me: "Nope"

    -The End-

    From what I have heard, it is worth it to love. I have found it incredibly boring to live my life by myself and noone to share it with. Kind of like my view on money. I hate the effects money can have on people. In my opinion, the only reason to have an excess of money is if you have someone (other than yourself) to spend it on. (That is where budgeting comes in )
    Those questions do suck and it really isn't anyone's business.

    I agree (about the money thing)...it wouldn't really mean as much to me if I didn't have someone (a family - a spouse, kids, etc.) to spend it on.
    After all,
    you're my wonderwall...

    {listen: }

  7. #187
    Senior Member FallaciaSonata's Avatar
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    I do loathe those types of question....you're right. It isn't any of their business. I understand that they care, but still....

    I'm keeping my checklist. I've decided that if a bright light flashes, followed quickly by fanfare, and someone designed just for me drops out of the sky and lands right in front of me, then yes. I'll go ahead and try this "love" stuff.

    But until then, I'm keeping my checklist.

    Always remember to flank your enemies. History won't remember how dramatic your failed frontal assault looked. - Dragon Age: Origins

  8. #188
    Senior Member AutumnReverie's Avatar
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    I feel the same way. I'm keeping my checklist too. Like you said, if someone I feel strongly about or see a future with comes along (ahead of schedule) then I'll give the whole "love" thing a try. But it's not something that I'm going to actively pursue or put a lot of effort into achieving right now. I will once I reach that point on my "list", but until then...not so much.

    To the original poster (fishingdude): If you're fine with being single right now and having your checklist, then I don't see why you would need to go through the trouble of altering or deviating from the list if that's not what you want to do. Just because other people have have "love" further up on their list or perhaps they don't have a list at all (the horror!), doesn't mean that you should let them pressure you. It may be a high priority for others right now, but it's okay and understandable if it's not a high priority for you right now.
    After all,
    you're my wonderwall...

    {listen: }

  9. #189
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Assuming FDG was being serious, I think he's saying that the longer we wait, the fewer opportunities and chances we'll have. So the search for love is like a timed test.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #190
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    It's called the dreaded "social clock" Cimarron.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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