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  1. #121
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Why do you think he should socialize more?

    I am interested in a position/opinion of someone with strong Fe about this kinds of things.
    I could be wrong but it seemed like he wanted to make more connections with people in real life?

    Quote Originally Posted by raz1337 View Post
    No, nobody is perfect. But how would you even define perfection? I'd say people seek perfection in certain aspects of their life. The perfection just comes about in a way different from the common perspective of perfection.

    Enough of that. Now, this is just making me wonder. Why am I chasing the idea of love? The idea of random socializing or dating doesn't appeal to me. It's not an easy skill for me to acquire, hence I haven't acquired the ability to chat up random people enough for them to want to talk to me after our initial meeting. Why should I even care, though?

    Is it really just so horrible for a person to be so immensely deliberative about it? I guess if I haven't had a relationship, and I don't find it a priority to seek people out on a daily basis outside of the oogling at attractive people, then there must be something wrong with me. I mean, other people view ISTJs as this secretive prude, apparently.

    It just begs the question of, what am I doing and why am I doing it?
    You have two choices. You can settle on the notion that connections are supposed to happen naturally and without effort and just wait for them to happen when they do, or you can do a few things to speed that process up and make them happen.

  2. #122
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    well yeah...and i'm saying you should take then seriously regardless if they're venting or they want advice...or if it's family and it really bothers you just say...you know i'm awful at this...maybe talk to...some other family member about it...idk...was just trying to help...because that sort of give and take is important when relating to people and you either care to cultivate it or you don't.
    See, it's just that my mind goes blank in those situations. I just don't get sympathetic easily. I'm just always stuck on myself also. I have a really hard time becoming interested in someone else's affairs unless it directly affects me or it's an area I'm interested in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    In what way? Is the idea of having friends or loving someone conformity?



    Well, you just said earlier that:



    So, how many of those activities involve people other than yourself? Besides work and school you seem pretty isolated unless you go to a gym and work out. In order to meet other people in your natural life, your natural life needs to consist of other people actually being around. That's the only reason I gave the suggestions -- to get other people with the same interests integrated into your natural activities. For me, I've learned that I can't always rely on others to "find me" and pull me out of my isolation and aloofness. Sometimes you have to be proactive about something and seek out company if you want it. The real question you have to ask yourself, like Beat and ceecee already said is, "Do you want it?"
    You said I was looking for love because other people seemed to be finding it and enjoying it, so I wanted to experience what other people were enjoying. That, to me, sounds like conformity.

    I'm just trying to find a genuine reason why I would seek out people in a manner that isn't part of my "natural" life. That just isn't natural. I guess, for others, it's fine, but it's so forced. I've tried it. I'm not looking to try it again partly because of the failure, and also mostly because I wouldn't allow that kind of thing in my life. Intentionally socializing just to...mingle? WTF? I guess I just look at it also as adding acquaintances to my life that probably aren't going to be important to me. Kind of an oxymoron for acquaintances, you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    yeah...i agree...you either want to have good relations with other people or not...and just like any goal you set for yourself...you will learn how to do it if you decide it's a worthwhile goal.

    so...step one...put it on your to do list...

    step 2...figure out appropriate ways to communicate

    step 3...set appropriate expectations or expect to be disappointed.

    this is my attempt at speaking your language...really not trying to be shitty...okay.
    People actually make it a goal to meet people? And find success with it? And actually feel better after the success? I'm just trying to understand the concept. I'm not trying to sound anti-social. It's just I've spent a lot of time doing things that I was pursuing as a genuine personal interest, and made some amazing friends, but no real romantic interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    My ISTJ wife is a lot like that. She is EXTREMELY private, and does not like people knowing much about her. Myself, on the other hand, I am... very much not that. I don't care who knows.

    The difference between you and her is she can relate to other people, but chooses not to. When you are one of the people she cares about she can open up to the other person. You are part of the inner circle.

    The only problem is when life gets to be a bit much and the people she loves/cares for stop being in the inner circle, and the inner circle only consists of herself. Is that possibly what is going on with you? Did you ever have a close relationship? A parent? Sibling? Best friend?
    When I have a significant problem in my life, I'll spend a considerable amount of time trying to fix it on my own. I honestly hate relying on other people. It makes me feel weak. I've tried to convince myself to be ok with it that it's a journey to actual independence, but...not really working out.

    I've had a considerable amount of "close friends." People I told a lot of things to, but...I've never really had someone that I just felt emotionally attached to. even like a best friend, that I could count on. I'm very close to my oldest sister. I mean, how would you define close? A level of trust based on experience with the person, or an emotional attachment? I can trust her with a lot of things, but I tend to hold back a lot of my thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    I could be wrong but it seemed like he wanted to make more connections with people in real life?



    You have two choices. You can settle on the notion that connections are supposed to happen naturally and without effort and just wait for them to happen when they do, or you can do a few things to speed that process up and make them happen.
    The former sounds more enticing to me. I don't recall saying I wanted to make more connections. I just stated why relationships are difficult for me. It's not like I'm saying, "Give me a reason to want to love someone." It just seems to me that so many other people try so much harder to find love than I do, and apparently they're successful, but it's just that amount of effort that I'm not interested in. That's why I was just hoping I'd find interesting people at school, but even there it's hard to find a reason to "mingle" other than to tell people what they're doing wrong. It's so easy to just close myself off.

    I don't know. I need to think about it some more. I feel like I'm just rambling.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz1337 View Post
    I'm very close to my oldest sister. I mean, how would you define close? A level of trust based on experience with the person, or an emotional attachment? I can trust her with a lot of things, but I tend to hold back a lot of my thoughts.
    Often we model our relationships on the kinds of relationships we had growing up.

    Who do you confide in? My wife had a journal as well. Do you at least do something like that? Or is it all kept buried?

  4. #124
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Often we model our relationships on the kinds of relationships we had growing up.

    Who do you confide in? My wife had a journal as well. Do you at least do something like that? Or is it all kept buried?
    I don't know. Uhh. I guess her. But, I really go to her for like....information on the impersonal things. Like, I wanted to find a job, so, I went to her. All of my dealings with socializing...like a lot of my friends....I keep to myself. There's a lot I don't tell her. I've always wished I had a best friend like I hear about from other people. I just never found one. I just thought it was because I had such a hard time becoming interested in other people's problems that they didn't want to keep talking to me.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz1337 View Post
    I just never found one. I just thought it was because I had such a hard time becoming interested in other people's problems that they didn't want to keep talking to me.
    Yes, people will read that and shut down.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yes, people will read that and shut down.
    It also helps when you say "Don't tell me no hard luck stories, and I won't tell you mine."

  7. #127
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    from my experience the need just doesn't seem to be as great.

    i think it's important to you to be 100% self reliant and i'm not so sure you could ever totally value someone else's opinion as much as your own.

    i think you might just want a companion who you enjoy being with that helps you run things..it's about going through life with someone...not so much...being known by someone...and this huge deep connection...is that off base?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #128
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    from my experience the need just doesn't seem to be as great.

    i think it's important to you to be 100% self reliant and i'm not so sure you could ever totally value someone else's opinion as much as your own.

    i think you might just want a companion who you enjoy being with that helps you run things..it's about going through life with someone...not so much...being known by someone...and this huge deep connection...is that off base?
    That's exactly it. I want a teammate first, then a lover.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz1337 View Post
    That's exactly it. I want a teammate first, then a lover.
    Ah, the old Greek method. Nothin' wrong with that.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz1337 View Post
    That's exactly it. I want a teammate first, then a lover.
    Not very romantic.

    While SJs look for "helpmates" they look for helpmates AS lovers. Not helpers first.

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