[MBTI General] you must love yourself before anyone else can love you.

[elfsprin]

this is one of those "old adages" that i can't remember the exact phrasing for, it's something along the lines of the thread title, though.

personally, i've heard this adage frequently over the years. it would be incorrect to say that i found it silly, or wrong, or objectionable. however, it was always, for me, something that i found vaguely disquieting; it was something i never really understood, or could evaluate with regards to its truth- this made me highly suspect of the adage, and the people who would parrot it, without really knowing why i felt that way.

just lately, while thinking about love and relationships, i came to an unhappy conclusion and immediately thereafter thought of this adage: it was my 'aha, now i get it' moment.

however, i think my understanding of what this adage means is not really what's generally intended. it strikes me, in fact, that this adage might indeed be true for all people, but for different reasons depending on MBTI type.

the conclusion i came to that lead me to lend credulity to this adage was this: i don't love myself, and because i don't, i would be ashamed to present "who i am" to someone that i was in love with. i would be afraid of that rejection. hence, until i am happy with who i am and love myself, no one else whom i am really interested in will be able to love me- i won't give them the chance. on the other hand, anyone who thinks that they love me (romantically) probably has a misconception about who i really am, and therefore loves the idea they have of me, but not me.

it strikes me that this is a very INTP sort of thing to say, and that other types might not identify with it at all, but that they still might find that the adage holds true- for a different reason.

i wanted to ask you all: what do you think about this adage? have you experienced its truth in your life? is it for a reason similar to mine, or something completely different?

 

[Grayscale]

my interpretation of this is that the divide created by the difference in understanding--that is, one person cannot relate to another person loving them--is greater than what the effective bond of that love can overcome

 

[elfsprin]

my interpretation of this is that the divide created by the difference in understanding--that is, one person cannot relate to another person loving them--is greater than what the effective bond of that love can overcome

interesting- so here again, as in my interpretation of the adage, the 'responsibility' for love not being possible lies within yourself, and not in the other person. they may have some sort of love for you, but you reject it because you cannot comprehend its object within yourself.

i think putting the 'locus of control' in yourself here is a very T thing to do, especially when you think that the success of love can hinge on comprehension.

do you think there are types that would place the 'responsibility' for love not being possible in the other person? perhaps Js would do that, if they were envisioning themselves as the one who wants to love an other, rather than the one who must love themselves?

 

[Lateralus]

i wanted to ask you all: what do you think about this adage? have you experienced its truth in your life? is it for a reason similar to mine, or something completely different?

There have been times that I have rejected others because I was unhappy and/or insecure about the direction of my life. There have been situations where I've distanced myself because I assumed that if she really knew what was going on, she would reject me.

 

[Giggly]

I think it's cool that you posted this in the SJ section.

 

[Giggly]

misquote

btw, I thought the old adage went, "You must love yourself before you can love another"? (which imo is false)

 

[Snow Turtle]

btw, I thought the old adage went, "You must love yourself before you can love another"? (which imo is false)

Yep, that's the one I've heard many times. Why don't you believe it to be true?

For me... it's dealing with the idea that it's difficult to focus on the other person as they become your source of love. The focus is constantly on you. Relationships with these attitudes usually contain emotional problems like co-dependancy and insecurities.

Thinking it over though... I don't see any reason why this relationship wouldn't be able to work out.

Person looking for love -> Person who desires to be a helper/offer love.
Person looking for love -> Person looking for love.

If we aren't talking about that adage but instead the one the OP posted... I'd interpret it as the whole closeness thing as well.

 

[elfsprin]

btw, I thought the old adage went, "You must love yourself before you can love another"? (which imo is false)

thanks! i would really love to get input from as many different types as possible, it can only help me grow and comprehend more. and in love, honestly i can use all the help i can get, so the more varying data, the better


i think i've heard it go both ways, but i could very well be imagining things. possibly, it's even an entirely different adage that i'm thinking of without realizing it, which took on this "must love self to be loved by others!!" meaning for me.

 

[elfsprin]

Yep, that's the one I've heard many times. Why don't you believe it to be true?

For me... it's dealing with the idea that it's difficult to focus on the other person as they become your source of love. The focus is constantly on you. Relationships with these attitudes usually contain emotional problems like co-dependancy and insecurities.

Thinking it over though... I don't see any reason why this relationship wouldn't be able to work out.

Person looking for love -> Person who desires to be a helper/offer love.
Person looking for love -> Person looking for love.

If we aren't talking about that adage but instead the one the OP posted... I'd interpret it as the whole closeness thing as well.

interesting. so in your second paragraph, would it be correct to paraphrase you as meaning that if your love for yourself is not strong or solid enough, another person's love for you can become addictive and magnetic to the point that, even if you really want to love the other person, you sort of get lost in basking in their love for you?

i could really see this 'basking' alchemizing into a persistent 'demanding' of them to supply you with more and more love. it could even become easy, somehow, for you to think that appreciating their love of you was an honorable and valid way of giving love back to them in return.

 

[Snow Turtle]

interesting. so in your second paragraph, would it be correct to paraphrase you as meaning that if your love for yourself is not strong or solid enough, another person's love for you can become addictive and magnetic to the point that, even if you really want to love the other person, you sort of get lost in basking in their love for you?

i could really see this 'basking' alchemizing into a persistent 'demanding' of them to supply you with more and more love. it could even become easy, somehow, for you to think that appreciating their love of you was an honorable and valid way of giving love back to them in return.

Yep.
It's certainly an easy trap to fall into. Personally I see alot of value in that one statement, because it's a situation that I fall into very often despite never having been in love. Certainly alot of ISFJs experience the whole "need to be loved" and I'm no exception. It's even more of a problem in individuals who lack self-esteem and self-confidence (aka find difficulty being comfortable in their own skins).

Here's an example of how this belief manifests itself in my life. A Friendship with romantic undertones I had. My self-esteem/confidence went slightly up because of the attention I was receiving, however at times I also felt like I was an emotional leech. At the end of it I had too seriously question whether I was feeding my ego with the attention they were giving and how much I really cared for my friend.

Obviously I'm really good friends and do care. But if you don't love yourself, you'll find that your love for the other person is slightly diluted with this whole "How is her love making me feel" and even worse "What can I do to make her love me".

It's no problem if two people with these insecurities feed each other.
It's also no problems if you get one person who has the helper mentality of fixing the other person.
However the day the above changes (when one matures)~ There will be complications.

Basically I see the above statement as a guideline for a healthy relationship for two healthy individuals .

 

[FDG]

No. I a complete megalomaniac and think I am awesome mentally, physically and character-wise, so I don't have a problem loving others.

 

[elfsprin]

No. I a complete megalomaniac and think I am awesome mentally, physically and character-wise, so I don't have a problem loving others.

you're italian. all is forgiven.

 

[CzeCze]

I believe the OP is true. When you learn how to love yourself, truly love yourself, without deception and ego or doubt, you've learned one (three_ of the most important lessons towards having a healthy relationship with someone. Namely, "I am worthy of love. I am capable of loving. I know what love is".

 

[Giggly]

A person loving someone Vs. them accepting someone elses love in return are two separate things.

 

[Condor]

For me, I'm not quite sure about "loving yourself". I believe love is the desire to be one with another. I also believe, however, that you cannot love without accepting yourself for what you are.

As far as anyone else loving you, I can't speak to the drives and motivations of others.

 

[elfsprin]

as a T, i feel a strong need to comprehend and understand why a partner might love me, which i think is something that lies at the heart of this adage's validity for me.

how do any Fs around here experience this need to intellectually comprehend a partner's love- the motivations, how their love may reveal things about their character based on what they seem to value, the internal standards or sets of criteria they operate with which are evinced by their emotions, etc.? does it play a substantial role in your romantic relationships?

one thing i've heard a lot about is the magical 'i just know' when it comes to love. i feel that it relates to the topic because i personally feel that my penchant for analysis-ad-nauseam, which i have to fight quite relentlessly to turn off, may at many times be really and truly inappropriate. i do feel that most of my dissatisfaction with myself is justified, and that it's a positive thing overall because i find overzealous self-critique to be far preferable to self-deceit. but, on the other hand, some of this beratement that i toss my own way might be way over the top and blown out of proportion, and i have a really hard time seeing that clearly. i think this works the other way around as well: i end up over analyzing the actions, words and emotions that are sent my way by someone that i'm in a relationship with because i need to understand it in an intellectual capacity. so, i feel like this ties into the thread topic, as the antithesis to over-analyzing seems to be the 'i just know' phenomenon.

i wonder if Fs tend to experience love from another person primarily through 'just knowing' and secondarily through comprehension? it seems like the obvious answer might be yes, but i'm asking anyway also: my success with comprehension depends very heavily on my Ne (whereas whatever part of me might from time to time experience something like 'i just know' doesn't really feel like it has any functions supporting it at all); for the S crowd: one, do you tend to rely on one or the other (comprehension vs. just know), and two, if so which one does your S seem to support the most, naturally?

 

[Coeur]

Yep, that's the one I've heard many times. Why don't you believe it to be true?

For me... it's dealing with the idea that it's difficult to focus on the other person as they become your source of love. The focus is constantly on you. Relationships with these attitudes usually contain emotional problems like co-dependancy and insecurities.

Thinking it over though... I don't see any reason why this relationship wouldn't be able to work out.

Person looking for love -> Person who desires to be a helper/offer love.
Person looking for love -> Person looking for love.

If we aren't talking about that adage but instead the one the OP posted... I'd interpret it as the whole closeness thing as well.

This is why agree with the love yourself quote: the whole codependency thing.

My last TWO relationships were like this: the boyfriends were looking for love, and I wanted to give it to them. The problem with this? No person can give you everything you need if you're a bottomless pit, and so the relationship ends very, very badly. It destroys the needy person even more. Additionally, extreme insecurities harm the relationship even before it ends because the person is so demanding/paranoid/oversensitive. These relationships are NOT fun. I'd like someone to love me because they want to, not because they need to.

 

[Saslou]

i don't love myself, and because i don't, i would be ashamed to present "who i am" to someone that i was in love with. i would be afraid of that rejection. hence, until i am happy with who i am and love myself, no one else whom i am really interested in will be able to love me- i won't give them the chance.

I can see how someone could view themselves in this light and also whilst in so called loving relationships. Possibly when a seed is planted in someones head and its watered daily with words so vulgar and disgusting to the point you contemplate your very being and existance yet these words are taken as gospel as the person saying them loves you. Why should you not believe them. The downside to this is long after the relationships are over, those words are still there so why bother giving someone else a chance.
"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

how do any Fs around here experience this need to intellectually comprehend a partner's love- the motivations, how their love may reveal things about their character based on what they seem to value, the internal standards or sets of criteria they operate with which are evinced by their emotions, etc.? does it play a substantial role in your romantic relationships?

I wonder if Fs tend to experience love from another person primarily through 'just knowing' and secondarily through comprehension? it seems like the obvious answer might be yes, but i'm asking anyway

for the S crowd: one, do you tend to rely on one or the other (comprehension vs. just know), and two, if so which one does your S seem to support the most, naturally?

I have done the 'just knowing' and it was something screaming in my head "go and do this". I didn't do the comprehension thing. Hindsight, it would of been wise. I did support the 'just knowing' theory.

I'd like someone to love me because they want to, not because they need to.

I totally agree. You can however, give someone everything they want though and its taken wholeheartedly but during those bad times, those things you gave with no conditions are twisted to make you viewed as needy when all along it was a want.

 

[Entp/infjGal]

I think it makes us uncomfortable because we think of narcissism. I also dislike the words "love yourself" because I think of love as something you can only give another since it is a bit of self-gift. However, I understand that what is meant is not narcissism. It is self-acceptance. People don't often realize that when we are highly self-rejecting, it makes it that much harder to accept other people when they fall short of our expectations. It also keeps us unhealthy as we are rejecting bits of ourselves but they don't go away. They just hurt from all the rejecting and get shoved into the unconscious where they continue to influence our behaviour in weird ways that are invisible to our conscious selves.

I think of self-acceptance as necessary, not to loving people at all, but to loving people well or to loving people UNCONDITIONALLY.

Only a person who has learned to make peace with his own darkness can accept those in darkness or pain or failure. First, they are not as needy, so their love is more truly free. They don't need that much reciprocation. Then, their own self acceptance frees up a lot of their psychic energy that they can then share with others. Third, they have faced their darkness, so they are not proud but humble, never think of themselves as saints though they are generally the most saintly people, and also, they are not afraid of other people's "stuff", they can still see the dignity of the person even if everyone rejects that person.

It is not easy, which is why so few achieve it, but I think it is worth striving for. We have no idea how much of our psychic energy is preoccupied with us and the efforts to protect us based on our painful but often very false and fearful beliefs, or how much this interferes with our relationships. True self-acceptance is described by the enlightened as freedom. We no longer have to be pre-occupied with ourselves, so we love others easier, better, more freely. At least that's what I think is meant. What I hope for

 

[Red Memories]

I think being loved by someone who is very special to you, can honestly, help you love yourself.

Speaking as someone who's moreless hated themselves. XD