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  1. #1
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    Default Guardians and other Js (especially intuitors)

    So we all know what effect has J on guardians, they are rather organized, and think everything should be organized, and follow rules, and so on and so on.... you know what i mean.

    So lets take other Js (intuitives); doesnt that "J" make them to act like little guardians? Like they are almost the same as guardians, only they are N instead of S. What do you think?

  2. #2
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Maybe Ns are less apt to control their environment, just their ideas and plans. In their work, they probably both have that structured approach to carrying out their ideas, and if people work under them, that could come off as Guardian-like. I guess.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    INJ cares more about organization of ideas and cohesiveness more than what's going on in their environment. There's some that say they're the least "J" of all the judgers.

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    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    NJs want their plans implemented.

    Rules are mostly extraneous and serve as stepping-points towards this installation.

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    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I vs. E would probably make a difference as well, meaning that:

    ESJ likes to control furthest out into the physical environment.
    INJ likes to control least far into the physical environment.

    (considering ESJ, ISJ, ENJ, and INJ)
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Where do ISJ and ENJ come in the line-up?
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    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Wasn't sure. Somewhere in the middle, not sure what order.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

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    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    That's the question. Are ENJs more J than ISJs or is it the other way around? Or maybe it breaks down by T/F. Then we have to ask, which is more J - ENTJ or ISTJ? ENFJ or ISFJ?
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    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Probably not much difference in T vs. F, since they are both of the "Judging Functions", meaning that's how you judge, not how much you judge. The other factors will affect how much. That's my thinking, anyway.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  10. #10
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauche View Post
    So we all know what effect has J on guardians, they are rather organized, and think everything should be organized, and follow rules, and so on and so on.... you know what i mean.
    Actually your first statement is not correct. Keirsey never discusses the dichotomies individually, but as a group. Itís not S-J, itís SJ. So when you refer to any of the temperament groups under Keirsey or Berens, you are referring to a group with common core values (SJ,NT,NF,SP). There is a detailed description of SJ that starts off by saying,
    The expression of the Guardian temperament is related to a need for to belong to organisations, a desire for order, and a drive to be dutiful. Those who strongly express this pattern of emotional response collectively provide the dependable backbone of our societies. It is the driving pattern behind commerce, shop keeping and sales, libraries and museums, as well as law and law enforcement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gauche View Post
    So lets take other Js (intuitives); doesnt that "J" make them to act like little guardians? Like they are almost the same as guardians, only they are N instead of S. What do you think?
    Agreed that NTs in general share commonalities with SJs, but NJs can look more superficially like SPs and are routinely confused since they share the core value of being pragmatic:
    The drive for mastery, and desire to remain in control, produce a fairly common pattern of behaviour among those who express Rational strongly: they tend to participate solely in activities where they can excel. This sometimes seems to be highly competitive, but in general terms it is not that the individual in question is determined to win (although some undoubtedly will be!) but rather that their desire to remain in control of any situation makes them uncomfortable when they are not capable of competence. This can be seen as another expression of Rational pragmatism: let everyone attend to whatever they are best at doing.

    The Artisan pattern shares this pragmatic focus and desire for independent action with the Rational pattern, but for people expressing Artisan the focus is more upon the freedom to act according to the needs of the moment. In essence, the Artisan patternís pragmatism is more focussed on the immediate present, while the Rational patternís pragmatism tends to take a more expansive time-independent perspective.

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