• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Guardians and other Js (especially intuitors)

Gauche

New member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
333
So we all know what effect has J on guardians, they are rather organized, and think everything should be organized, and follow rules, and so on and so on.... you know what i mean.

So lets take other Js (intuitives); doesnt that "J" make them to act like little guardians? Like they are almost the same as guardians, only they are N instead of S. What do you think?
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Maybe Ns are less apt to control their environment, just their ideas and plans. In their work, they probably both have that structured approach to carrying out their ideas, and if people work under them, that could come off as Guardian-like. I guess.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
INJ cares more about organization of ideas and cohesiveness more than what's going on in their environment. There's some that say they're the least "J" of all the judgers.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
NJs want their plans implemented.

Rules are mostly extraneous and serve as stepping-points towards this installation.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I vs. E would probably make a difference as well, meaning that:

ESJ likes to control furthest out into the physical environment.
INJ likes to control least far into the physical environment.

(considering ESJ, ISJ, ENJ, and INJ)
 

Jae Rae

Free-Rangin' Librarian
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
979
MBTI Type
INFJ
Where do ISJ and ENJ come in the line-up?
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Wasn't sure. Somewhere in the middle, not sure what order.
 

Jae Rae

Free-Rangin' Librarian
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
979
MBTI Type
INFJ
That's the question. Are ENJs more J than ISJs or is it the other way around? Or maybe it breaks down by T/F. Then we have to ask, which is more J - ENTJ or ISTJ? ENFJ or ISFJ?
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Probably not much difference in T vs. F, since they are both of the "Judging Functions", meaning that's how you judge, not how much you judge. The other factors will affect how much. That's my thinking, anyway.
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
So we all know what effect has J on guardians, they are rather organized, and think everything should be organized, and follow rules, and so on and so on.... you know what i mean.
Actually your first statement is not correct. Keirsey never discusses the dichotomies individually, but as a group. It’s not S-J, it’s SJ. So when you refer to any of the temperament groups under Keirsey or Berens, you are referring to a group with common core values (SJ,NT,NF,SP). There is a detailed description of SJ that starts off by saying,
The expression of the Guardian temperament is related to a need for to belong to organisations, a desire for order, and a drive to be dutiful. Those who strongly express this pattern of emotional response collectively provide the dependable backbone of our societies. It is the driving pattern behind commerce, shop keeping and sales, libraries and museums, as well as law and law enforcement.
So lets take other Js (intuitives); doesnt that "J" make them to act like little guardians? Like they are almost the same as guardians, only they are N instead of S. What do you think?
Agreed that NTs in general share commonalities with SJs, but NJs can look more superficially like SPs and are routinely confused since they share the core value of being pragmatic:
The drive for mastery, and desire to remain in control, produce a fairly common pattern of behaviour among those who express Rational strongly: they tend to participate solely in activities where they can excel. This sometimes seems to be highly competitive, but in general terms it is not that the individual in question is determined to win (although some undoubtedly will be!) but rather that their desire to remain in control of any situation makes them uncomfortable when they are not capable of competence. This can be seen as another expression of Rational pragmatism: let everyone attend to whatever they are best at doing.

The Artisan pattern shares this pragmatic focus and desire for independent action with the Rational pattern, but for people expressing Artisan the focus is more upon the freedom to act according to the needs of the moment. In essence, the Artisan pattern’s pragmatism is more focussed on the immediate present, while the Rational pattern’s pragmatism tends to take a more expansive time-independent perspective.
 

Mondo

Welcome to Sunnyside
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,992
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
To add the P's to this list- since some P's can definitely be controlling- here is what I think would be the whole list.

ESJ
ISJ, ENJ, ESP
INJ, ENP, ISP
INP
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
NJs are more like really absent-minded SPs with backup plans to make up for it.
 

Gauche

New member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
333
Actually your first statement is not correct. Keirsey never discusses the dichotomies individually, but as a group. It’s not S-J, it’s SJ. So when you refer to any of the temperament groups under Keirsey or Berens, you are referring to a group with common core values (SJ,NT,NF,SP). There is a detailed description of SJ that starts off by saying, Agreed that NTs in general share commonalities with SJs, but NJs can look more superficially like SPs and are routinely confused since they share the core value of being pragmatic:

sure mister thinker, can you do anything without analyzing? (i guess you even analyze it when you go to toilet). Just listen what i said and say something meaningful, descriptions are nice, but they are only descriptions, reality could be pretty different, but nevertheless, everything I said in first paragraph was right and we both know it. So i dont know why you must oppose me when im basically right (probably beacuse you are T, and it just doesnt fit the "holy description", so you must correct me). So dont take me wrong, but i think that descriptions are only descriptions and we shouldnt overanalyse everything, sometimes its better to look just how these systems behave in reality

no offense:bye:

(maybe im wrong at all)
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
sure mister thinker, can you do anything without analyzing? (i guess you even analyze it when you go to toilet). Just listen what i said and say something meaningful, descriptions are nice, but they are only descriptions, reality could be pretty different, but nevertheless, everything I said in first paragraph was right and we both know it. So i dont know why you must oppose me when im basically right (probably beacuse you are T, and it just doesnt fit the "holy description", so you must correct me). So dont take me wrong, but i think that descriptions are only descriptions and we shouldnt overanalyse everything, sometimes its better to look just how these systems behave in reality

no offense:bye:

(maybe im wrong at all)
No offense taken, and yes I actually do my best analyzing while on the toilet.
 

moonbaby

New member
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
100
i am on the j/p line.........and my j is fairly strong.......though mostly toward myself.
 
Top