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  1. #31
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    I'm married to an ISFJ ... and I'm lucky in that she is fairly flexible. Perhaps this is due to living with me all these years ... I don't know. She is open to a lot of the things I like to do, and I try to reciprocate with helping her around the house ... which I know is very important to her. Yes, she does have some set ways that are very difficult to circumnavigate, but I have a few core values of my own. I don't feel trapped with her, and we do not argue (too much ). Sometimes, however, I feel that she is really an INFJ. Go figure.

  2. #32
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Definitely. In fact, one conjecture is that the ISFJ policy of "serving others" and/or "moving towards" them (similar to an Ennegram Two) is that it's a control mechanism.

    As other example, INTPs "move away" from others typically -- thus controlling the interaction by avoiding it. ENTJ's "move against" others and directly try to control others by conquering/dominating. ISFJs wield control over a relationship by appeasing the other person and thus avoiding criticism or judgment of themselves.

    (This isn't to say that the desire to please is not genuine, and I think mature ISFJ's can use their ability to mother and provide for others in ways that are not manipulative. But we all tend to use our strengths early on in life to manipulate the world in order to get what we want or to feel safe...)
    Yes.
    Caring is the other word for control. And manipulation is the other word for love.
    A semantic confusion only?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sometimes.

    I have seen them range in three directions:

    1. They focus solely on serving others and "doing things/chores" and don't pay much attention at all to their appearance. (Some of the older ISFJ's are this way and look very homely and tend to wear whatever they wore in the past.)

    2. They totally follow the "cute sentimental trend of the day" even if it's not a very good trend (like the Teddy Bear sweatshirts and pink-pink-pink-everything popular more in the late 80's and early 90's). Sentimental and cutesy is key here. The "country style" is one of those styles. These ISFJs also tend to use hearts to dot their i's.

    3. They can be very stylish and look very very put together -- every hair is in the right place, all the makeup is immaculate, the clothes are very sensible but crisp and catchy ... the "attractive professional woman." One ISFJ woman I know (who eventually became a beautician) could make herself look good even just wearing sweatpants. She was amazing that way!
    Jennifer,

    You absolutely crack me up! This is sooooo true.

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Caring is the other word for control. And manipulation is the other word for love. A semantic confusion only?
    "It's all about the mo-ti-va-tions, bay-bee...."

    Sometimes I wonder...
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    .

    BTW-I could barely get her to take the simple test. She can't calm herself down enough to answer the questions. She isn't really interested in all of this stuff. Too abstract for her.

    I have been thinking about this thread and the other one where the comments were made that N types are too judgemental of S types.

    This statement above reminds me of something that causes me to feel hurt about some people, relatives and in-laws who happen to be S types (not saying all S types are like that). They make snap judgements about me based on their own perceptions and then they won't discuss things like MBTI so that we both could learn more about each other and come to better understandings of each other. They took the test and found it rather boring for the most part. I also have had to learn that they apparently cannot help the lack of interest, yet at the same time it still feels cold to me to not want to learn more about self and others but then that is my viewpoint limiting my understanding of the world, I can see that in myself and yet it is still a major frustration to me.

    It did help me to learn from MBTI that they are not pretending when they don't get metaphors. I used to think some of them were playing games when they did that. Now I know better and while it is frustrating to always have to be watching what I say and how I say it because I know some of my communication patterns irritate them and cause them to shut down to what I am saying, I still do it. The thing is it would be nice if they cared enough to learn something like that about me to help our communications but then we're back to the thing about them not being interested in things that are too abstract.

    I wish they were more interested in learning that if I do not pepper my speech with lots of flowery Fe it does not mean I am mad or if I am not all super bubbly it does not mean I am depressed. It would help if they could learn that when I am tired, I am more introverted and it is nothing to do with my feelings about them and in fact when they guilt and push at me it just exhausts me more. Instead I find myself having to put those things into my behavior in a manner that is not my usual because it smooths the way when dealing with them, but alas it is also exahausting to me.

    When my people who happen to be SJ start getting too controlling or pushing into my boundaries, I always try to remember that they have a driving need to feel that they are *helping* someone even though their actions are not what the person needs at the time. I have to tell myself that when they ignore my requests for how I would like to be helped when they do this, that it is because they feel they know best for me. It does help me to endure them and to gently tell them when to back off instead of seeing it as a hostile gesture on their parts. That has been a real help.

    It would be nice if it were a two way street and we came to more of a meeting in the middle in regards this but I have to accept that it just is not in their nature to be curious about the deeper aspects of differences between people. They have their way of communicating and they think it is the right way and I guess if I were totally able to be sure of that in myself and had so much cultural support for the idea that my way was the best way I would not dig deeper either.

  6. #36
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    I have an ISFJ mother, dedicated and caring on one side, manipulative and controlling on the other side. Do not believe their "passivity" = "easy to control" They're very aggressive. I've also dated an ISFJ and never again.

  7. #37
    Member Arandur's Avatar
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    Argh, my mother is ISFJ and even though she can appear flexible in some things, once she gets an idea stuck in her head, it's not going anywhere. Ever. :steam:
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

  8. #38
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomama99 View Post
    I also had an ISFJ girlfriend. I will never date another ISFJ ever again even though most of them are good looking.


    I'm sorry, but this thread is full of crazy crap. I don't know where to begin, so i'll just end with...

    Don't forget that Vin Diesel is likely an ISFJ, so watch it everyone or he'll make martyrs of y'all.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arandur View Post
    Argh, my mother is ISFJ and even though she can appear flexible in some things, once she gets an idea stuck in her head, it's not going anywhere. Ever. :steam:
    One year my ISFJ mother heard me say "thank you" for the purple shirt she gave me for Christmas, "because I don't yet have any purple shirts." And suddenly she heard it as, "my favorite color is purple." And for six years after that, every Christmas and birthday and whatever, I received a purple article of clothing.

    The royal curse was thwarted only when I finally blurted out one year that purple was NOT my favorite color, nor HAD it ever been, and I would be very happy to receive some clothes in some other color.

    Still... it is part of her drive to make others happy.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    I live with my ISFJ mother. Yes, she may be a little inflexible at times but it's too easy to convince her and get my way. (That sounds bad, but it's for simple things.) You just have to be really, really.. um, well nice. It's really easy to make my mom happy. She loves compliments.. on anything: the dinner she made, her clothes, etc. The happier they are the more likely they're able to let you have what you want. The more you piss an ISFJ off the more they will fight back. So calm down, humor them.. it worked for me for 17 years.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

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