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  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I can see why some might class the friend as a closet ISTJ, since she is exuding a coldness that is usually more indicative of T than F, but I do not know enough of her past and present life situation to make a confident statement. Depending on the stresses that they have lived under, ISFJs can easily become cold and cynical and bitter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    Today she called and wanted to know everything I was doing the entire weekend. It's like she's becoming possessive of me. I'm the most independent person you'll ever meet and there's no way in hell that I want someone hanging all over me and telling me what to do.
    ISFJ (females at least) are notorious for this... but often a mix of good and bad. Part of it is possessiveness, part of it is the introversion which prevents them from latching onto TOO many people (so the few people that they DO have become the recipients of all of their attention), and part of it is because she feels like she has a relationship with you, and a relation is built of surface details rather than underlying things... so she will quiz you about all of the details you find tedious to recount and sound as if she is being nosy.

    She is probably being nosy as well. That's a problem -- it is usually a mix of good and bad.

    If you feel like letting the cork ricochet out, you can just set some boundaries for her. They might upset her; they might also keep her out of your face, though. The more concrete the boundaries, the better; asking her to decide on her own every day what an appropriate level of contact is will confuse her and not satisfy you. ISFJ women very much seem to appreciate definitive statements of what please other people and what does not please them, so they can accommodate if possible.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I do not think she is an ISFJ.
    She is an ISTJ with a high L (L for Lie) scale.

    The L is a personality continuum for denial, accomodation and self deception.

    When a female ISTJ with a high L scale does the MBTI test she is bound to end as an ISFJ.

    As this is expected of her.
    An accomodation.
    This is fascinating! I had her take MBT1 and she scored ISFJ, however, she doesn't come across as having a strong Fe. I've discussed this with a NT friend that has a ISFJ husband and she tells me that he doesn't come across as a stong extraverted feeler, either. She tells me that he's very controlling and has a difficut time giving warmth and love. You would think they both had Fi instead of Fe in their secondary position. Perhaps it is the way they were socialized. I wonder if someone could explain it to me.

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    This is fascinating! I had her take MBT1 and she scored ISFJ, however, she doesn't come across as having a strong Fe. I've discussed this with a NT friend that has a ISFJ husband and she tells me that he doesn't come across as a stong extraverted feeler, either. She tells me that he's very controlling and has a difficult time giving warmth and love. You would think they both had Fi instead of Fe in their secondary position. Perhaps it is the way they were socialized. I wonder if someone could explain it to me.
    Without going into it much, I think the "control" issue is an important consideration.

    Fe can be used to control as well as to display emotions. And it would be interesting to see the other function ranges as well.

    (Can you get them to take the eight-function test?)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Without going into it much, I think the "control" issue is an important consideration.

    Fe can be used to control as well as to display emotions. And it would be interesting to see the other function ranges as well.

    (Can you get them to take the eight-function test?)
    Come to think of it, YES! Fe "IS" used to control, too. You know the old saying, "Kill people with kindness" and that can be manipulative and controlling, too.

    BTW-I could barely get her to take the simple test. She can't calm herself down enough to answer the questions. She isn't really interested in all of this stuff. Too abstract for her.

  5. #25
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    The dominant is still Si, in both ISTJ and ISFJ. So Fe will appear very different for them than for an ExFJ.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    Come to think of it, YES! Fe "IS" used to control, too. You know the old saying, "Kill people with kindness" and that can be manipulative and controlling, too.
    Definitely. In fact, one conjecture is that the ISFJ policy of "serving others" and/or "moving towards" them (similar to an Ennegram Two) is that it's a control mechanism.

    As other example, INTPs "move away" from others typically -- thus controlling the interaction by avoiding it. ENTJ's "move against" others and directly try to control others by conquering/dominating. ISFJs wield control over a relationship by appeasing the other person and thus avoiding criticism or judgment of themselves.

    (This isn't to say that the desire to please is not genuine, and I think mature ISFJ's can use their ability to mother and provide for others in ways that are not manipulative. But we all tend to use our strengths early on in life to manipulate the world in order to get what we want or to feel safe...)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    I've used manipulation in order to keep my mother from getting mad at me being too cold and distant.

    "do what she says and you'll eat tonight..."

  8. #28
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    I got an ISFJ mother. All I gotta say about ISFJ is that they're natural housewives, not sure about ISFJ men. They love to cook and clean they will try to control you in passive-aggressive ways. They will have crazy wild mood swings if they're not doing what they love doing best in...COOKING AND CLEANING and being PRAISED FOR IT as well.

    I also had an ISFJ girlfriend. I will never date another ISFJ ever again even though most of them are good looking.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomama99 View Post
    I got an ISFJ mother. All I gotta say about ISFJ is that they're natural housewives, not sure about ISFJ men. They love to cook and clean they will try to control you in passive-aggressive ways. They will have crazy wild mood swings if they're not doing what they love doing best in...COOKING AND CLEANING and being PRAISED FOR IT as well.
    Yes, this is my friend, I do love to go over to her house and have her fuss over me. Aside from some of her rigid conservative views that I just avoid discussing with , she's mostly a very lovely person. I don't think she is T, I think rather that certain stresses in her life, one being her over controlling mother, cause her to sometimes come out with her shadow traits.

    It is fascinating to see the shadow come out in another person. I wish I could see my own more closely. The only time I really can see it is waking up briefly at night, I will have a flash of something I did or said during that day and cringe and think "why did I do that?"

  10. #30
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomama99 View Post
    I also had an ISFJ girlfriend. I will never date another ISFJ ever again even though most of them are good looking.
    Sometimes.

    I have seen them range in three directions:

    1. They focus solely on serving others and "doing things/chores" and don't pay much attention at all to their appearance. (Some of the older ISFJ's are this way and look very homely and tend to wear whatever they wore in the past.)

    2. They totally follow the "cute sentimental trend of the day" even if it's not a very good trend (like the Teddy Bear sweatshirts and pink-pink-pink-everything popular more in the late 80's and early 90's). Sentimental and cutesy is key here. The "country style" is one of those styles. These ISFJs also tend to use hearts to dot their i's.

    3. They can be very stylish and look very very put together -- every hair is in the right place, all the makeup is immaculate, the clothes are very sensible but crisp and catchy ... the "attractive professional woman." One ISFJ woman I know (who eventually became a beautician) could make herself look good even just wearing sweatpants. She was amazing that way!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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