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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Thanks for getting the thread back on track.
    Yes, I didn't mean to derail and wanted to make sure we didn't lose it.

    The people who are grieving care about how many people show up. It's comforting to them. I still remember my husband commenting how many cars there were in line on the way to the cemetery to bury his mother. That's just one example.
    Well, that's true. It would help the grieving family perhaps feel that others had seen what they had seen in terms of their passed love one. And even if we know "numbers don't matter," emotionally it's still reaffirming when many people showed up.

    One of the most unexpected highlights of my high school life was when I won the "Most Outstanding Choir Member" award my senior year. Why it meant so much to me seems dumb at times. I won many awards in the music programs but they were all based on competence and were awarded by the directors. This particular award, however was voted on by the entire choir. Yes, in some ways it was just a popularity contest... but I never felt popular at all, anywhere, and to know that many people at core level held me in that much esteem ... ?

    It still matters to me, even if intellectually I can dismiss it in some ways. It still chokes me up to think about; maybe I contributed more than I had thought.

    I don't know Jennifer. I don't see how I can assume my life had any value if nobody notices when I die. If we don't touch other people's lives in some meaningful way, what in the world are we here for?
    It's a good question. Maybe people would like to discuss that, in context of this thread.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I don't know Jennifer. I don't see how I can assume my life had any value if nobody notices when I die.
    If we don't touch other people's lives in some meaningful way, what in the world are we here for?
    (And of course, you understand I'm speaking from a Christian paradigm.)[/I]
    That is so illogical.
    Do you really believe that?
    That doesn't make sense, even from a purely Christian perspective.

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Thanks for getting the thread back on track.
    The people who are grieving care about how many people show up.
    It's comforting to them.
    I still remember my husband commenting how many cars there were in line on the way to the cemetery to bury his mother.
    That's just one example.

    I don't know Jennifer. I don't see how I can assume my life had any value if nobody notices when I die.
    If we don't touch other people's lives in some meaningful way, what in the world are we here for?
    (And of course, you understand I'm speaking from a Christian paradigm.)
    I feel like things like this are difficult to talk about on the forum because so many people here have a disdain for...I don't know how to describe it. Mostly how Jack has responded in this thread is a good way to describe it. People here are very cynical. I'm cynical too but not in this way. When I clicked on this thread I expected to see something different than what you said and I was happy to see what I read. Then I felt like people were going to twist this into something negative like the numbers are meaningless, like it's somehow more noble to have 5 people at your funeral than 450. Even if half of those people were there to genuinely mourn for this woman that's a beautiful thing. Is it more so than if there are five? Of course not!

    I don't think the number of people at this woman's funeral is meaningless. God knows how many people where gauche enough to use the funeral as a networking opportunity, but that's on them. Even so, they're riding off the impact this woman made on the lives of a lot of people. I don't find it hard to believe that she was able to form than many genuine connections. Of course I don't know her but I've met people that are able to touch you even in brief contact. Maybe that meant a lot to enough people that they showed up at her funeral. Maybe she had some dirt on them that she threatened to be reveal upon her death.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  4. #14
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    That is so illogical.
    Do you really believe that?
    That doesn't make sense, even from a purely Christian perspective.
    I'm not a logical person, Blue. While I admire people who can do it, I know it's not my gifting.

  5. #15
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    SJs never get my humor. Don't think I wasn't also serious though. I AM ALWAYS SERIOUS. *serious face (very)*

  6. #16
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I feel like things like this are difficult to talk about on the forum because so many people here have a disdain for...I don't know how to describe it. Mostly how Jack has responded in this thread is a good way to describe it. People here are very cynical. I'm cynical too but not in this way. When I clicked on this thread I expected to see something different than what you said and I was happy to see what I read. Then I felt like people were going to twist this into something negative like the numbers are meaningless, like it's somehow more noble to have 5 people at your funeral than 450. Even if half of those people were there to genuinely mourn for this woman that's a beautiful thing. Is it more so than if there are five? Of course not!

    I don't think the number of people at this woman's funeral is meaningless. God knows how many people where gauche enough to use the funeral as a networking opportunity, but that's on them. Even so, they're riding off the impact this woman made on the lives of a lot of people. I don't find it hard to believe that she was able to form than many genuine connections. Of course I don't know her but I've met people that are able to touch you even in brief contact. Maybe that meant a lot to enough people that they showed up at her funeral.
    One book describes the ESFJ type as the "How can I serve you?" type. One deaf person shared how this woman sacrificially sign-languaged an entire Red Sox game for her off the radio.

    I decided to post this in the forum because of the historically "bad press" S types seems to get here, especially ES types. EVERY type has it's virtues. It's just harder to see the virtues of the S types in a forum because they are out helping other people in a practical way.
    Maybe she had some dirt on them that she threatened to be reveal upon her death.
    tee-hee

    She wasn't a high-powered woman. I doubt that anyone was there to "network".

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, I didn't mean to derail and wanted to make sure we didn't lose it.

    Well, that's true. It would help the grieving family perhaps feel that others had seen what they had seen in terms of their passed love one. And even if we know "numbers don't matter," emotionally it's still reaffirming when many people showed up.

    One of the most unexpected highlights of my high school life was when I won the "Most Outstanding Choir Member" award my senior year. Why it meant so much to me seems dumb at times. I won many awards in the music programs but they were all based on competence and were awarded by the directors. This particular award, however was voted on by the entire choir. Yes, in some ways it was just a popularity contest... but I never felt popular at all, anywhere, and to know that many people at core level held me in that much esteem ... ?

    It still matters to me, even if intellectually I can dismiss it in some ways. It still chokes me up to think about; maybe I contributed more than I had thought.
    I understand. I gained a little of that "popular recognition" in high school too, and the comments still mean a lot to me, 30 years later.

    It's a good question. Maybe people would like to discuss that, in context of this thread.
    No reason why not.

  8. #18
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    The one thing that gives me hope is that this lady had no idea so many people were going to come to her memorial service.
    Originally they had planned to have it in a place that held 50 people.

    Realistically speaking (that's my husband's influence on me) it doesn't really matter how many people mourn me when I die. Only God knows how many people I will have impacted in a meaningful way.
    And maybe they'll all die before me anyway.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    The one thing that gives me hope is that this lady had no idea so many people were going to come to her memorial service.
    Originally they had planned to have it in a place that held 50 people.
    She died thinking she was unpopular, not liked, and forgotten, and this gives you hope?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    i wouldnt mind dying alone in the mountains. many of my companions attended my funeral, you could say.

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