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Thread: Ever fall into Ni/Ti thinking loop?

  1. #11
    Geolectric Array teslashock's Avatar
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    I was actually just chatting with BlackCat about this last night, and how it baffles me that somebody can be in a Ti/Ni loop (even though BC seems to be) when Ni and Ti seem so contradictory when they act independently.

    I think what ends up happening during these loops is a sort of synergy between Ti and Ni. Ti analyzes and systematizes, but as soon as it reaches an impasse in logical consistency, Ni jumps in and says "Well, that's ok if it doesn't make sense to Ti because Ti has completely arbitrary standards anyway, so I'll just go with the flow and settle for it not making sense from this particular perspective."

    It's like Ti scans and analyzes the periphery, travels down the path of information while it can, and upon reaching any major potholes, gaps, hills, or other roadblocks, Ni comes in as a bridge to make the path smooth again for Ti's sake.

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    Senior Member Array visaisahero's Avatar
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    Is it really a synergy, though? I personally think that they're somewhat "incompatible" and generate stress through inconsistency without the Fe or Te to step in and define the Ni a little more clearly so that the Ti can make sense of it.

    I think Ni on its own is very difficult to define, and Ti on its own tries to define everything.
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    Senior Member Array milkyway2's Avatar
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    Yep. I have this problem while writing essays.

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    Tsundoku Tsycho Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I think what ends up happening during these loops is a sort of synergy between Ti and Ni. Ti analyzes and systematizes, but as soon as it reaches an impasse in logical consistency, Ni jumps in and says "Well, that's ok if it doesn't make sense to Ti because Ti has completely arbitrary standards anyway, so I'll just go with the flow and settle for it not making sense from this particular perspective."
    I think that DOES happen... and it's the only way I can get past the Ti insistence (by "framing" the whole thing in Ni).

    However... the problem is that Ti does not go along quietly. I keep having to shove it back down any time I try to go with an Ni-style view. I'll be okay for a bit, then it pops up again demanding discernible coherence and answers.

    It's such a bad dog sometimes.
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    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Ni/Ti is the WORST during essays! How would Fe or Te step in to fix things? If anyone finds the secret, I want to know! It's like Ni and Ti are two very different people who go around redoing and cancelling out each other's work constantly and leaving people in a constant state of flux without the work ever done!

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    Senior Member Array milkyway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Ni/Ti is the WORST during essays! How would Fe or Te step in to fix things? If anyone finds the secret, I want to know! It's like Ni and Ti are two very different people who go around redoing and cancelling out each other's work constantly and leaving people in a constant state of flux without the work ever done!
    It's like as soon as I think I have a framework for my thoughts it all disappears into endless possibilities of new ways to organize my thoughts in different ways.

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    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    You know what I'm talking about! It's horrible.

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    Geolectric Array teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think that DOES happen... and it's the only way I can get past the Ti insistence (by "framing" the whole thing in Ni).

    However... the problem is that Ti does not go along quietly. I keep having to shove it back down any time I try to go with an Ni-style view. I'll be okay for a bit, then it pops up again demanding discernible coherence and answers.

    It's such a bad dog sometimes.
    I'm the same exact way with Ti, especially when dealing with people/relationships. I need to conjure up some pseudo Ni that will work to knock a little Ti out of my cognitive armory and make room on the shelf for some Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by milkyway2 View Post
    It's like as soon as I think I have a framework for my thoughts it all disappears into endless possibilities of new ways to organize my thoughts in different ways.
    This sounds more like Ne.

    I think Ni just makes Ti seem really silly and arbitrary, which can be frustrating after Ti has worked at systematizing. Ti puts up fences, and Ne knocks them down because it sees others that can be built, and Ni says "Why the hell do we need fences in the first place?"

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    ish red no longer *sad* Array nightning's Avatar
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    I never understand why people have to feel stressed out about using Ni with Ti. I believe this pertains more to INFJs than NTs simply because we're Ni dominant with a tertiary Ti. Where as for an INTJ and ENTJ, Ti is a complete shadow and tends to be seldom used. Same case with INTP and ENTP, they use Ti plenty, but rarely the shadow Ni.

    You might be better off asking ISTPs for a Ni/Ti comparison... since Ni ought to be their tertiary.

    Anyways, I frequently use Ni with Ti. To take the essay example, Ni comes up with a bunch of things that I want to mention. Instead of attempting to write in completely well formed sentences and paragraphs. You're better off jolting things down quickly with notes in outline format. Ti for the most part can organize things more readily in smaller chunks than as a whole. It's also not Ti that is causing problems in essay writing... rather it's the J tendency for wanting things to be written "perfectly". Hence the constant start/stop, erasing and stalls.

    What else... if Ni is the idea generator, think of Ti has the thought organizer. Ni feeds in ideas one at a time. Ti slots it neatly into the whole. If things doesn't make sense, it tells Ni to slow down and work things through. This has worked perfectly find for me for several years now.

    I totally disagree with the idea of Tertiary Temptation. There is nothing wrong with using Ni with Ti in a balanced manner.

    Edit: after you finish writing, then you go back to edit. Works much better every time.
    Last edited by nightning; 02-22-2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Typo fix
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  10. #20
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    Reading through this thread has not been particularly illuminating and perhaps someone else is in the same boat.

    I could give specific quotes but anyone should be able to see:

    Sometimes the way you guys talked about Ni (in terms of generating ideas for an essay) makes it sound more like Ne

    Sometimes the way you guys talked about Ti (in terms of organizing and structuring an essay) makes it sound more like Te.

    A lot of people probably think that just because it's being done inside, it's Ti, but all thinking is done internally (you don't say, Sherlock !).

    Even if it's done using purely imaginary fodder, categorizing, structuring, and inductive reasoning seems to be the domain of Te to me. So in the case of structuring essays, wouldn't that be Te?

    Similarly, analogies, logic problems, and deductive reasoning seems to be the domain of Ti, even if you are applying it to physical things in the outside world such as trying to solve a mystery involving diabolical hamsters.

    My example of a Ni/Ti loop would probably be more along the lines of:
    I wake up on a snowy day with the wind howling, and something inside(Ni) tells me to roll off the bed because the professor will be discussing something important today. While my Ti tells me that it's cold, windy, and I would be liable to freeze my dangly bits off.

    Then Te would come in and say, "dude, just throw on a heavy coat and get your butt out there.If you stay in bed today, this will become a habit"

    Finally Ne says, "perhaps this lousy weather is part of a nefarious plot by those diabolical hamsters..."
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