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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    "I need some input from INTPs"

    My dirty mind cant say that it just ignored this thread
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #42
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g_vartan View Post
    Bluewing, could you clarify the difference between 'having no or low expectations' on INTPs (an advice that is often provided) versus 'stating the problem or issue succinctly' for the INTP to understand? Isn't this conflicting? There seems to be a fine line that one needs to walk on but rather difficult to understand or distinguish (as an NF anyways).

    It would be an inconsistency if I were to say INTPs have NO expectations, and if I also were to say that INTPs have problems that they state succinctly. This is a contradiction because a person who has no expectations does not have a problem to discuss with the person he is having a relationship with.

    I should have been more specific and stated the following, INTPs tend to have low expectations from their partners. They communicate clearly and directly. Therefore they will communicate clearly and directly when discussing problems of the relationship, such problems are connected to the few expectations they have from their partner.

    If this did not answer your question, than I did not understand your question.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  3. #43
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Not that I have a large pool of INTPs to draw my conclusions from (only three) but it has been my experience that they are not direct at all. It's just poof, gone (not necessarily physically but they're definitely not there). Attempts to deal directly with them after hints (which aren't necessarily subtle) have gone unresponded to end in withdrawal.

    I'm not sure what you mean that the INTP must decide it's a "genuine problem." That seems to contradict the directness you suggest. So if I tell an INTP 'hey, I feel like I'm not getting enough affection from you' and they don't think it's a genuine problem you're back at square one. The other partner is steadily communicating to them but if they don't think it merits a response it becomes a festering problem.

    Doesn't that seem like the INTP gets to pick and choose what issues they want to address in the relationship and leave everything else ignored? That's why I say I don't find them as direct as you claim. And once again I ask, do INTPs take the time to communicate their lower relationship needs/expectations to their partners?
    I do not understand what your problem is.

    My claims could be rephrased as follows, if an INTP finds a problem important, he will discuss it with you in clear and direct terms. If he does not find it important, he may not do so.

    Is something unclear still?

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    And once again I ask, do INTPs take the time to communicate their lower relationship needs/expectations to their partners?
    That is contingent upon whether or not the INTP finds such needs important.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    So sorry things didn't work out, Sunshine8.
    I'd echo this, but I also think it's good you got out too.

  5. #45
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Can someone please explain what this "expectation" thing is?

    It seems to me that it's fair to have some sort of expectations from a relationship (expecting to talk or see the person a few times a week, go out together, be there for each other). Of course, you should communicate those expectations to see if they're acceptable to the partner, but honestly that doesn't happen much of the time. I'm sure INTPs have expectations as well. Do you all explicitly communicate your desire not to have expectations placed on you in a relationship or what expectations you do have? Are y'all saying that the partner should expect nothing from you or only accept what you're willing to give?
    Do you ever find with the INTPs you know that you have to state what it is that they expect?

    When I was younger I'd be completely unaware of what I expected of people until I started to notice patterns in when they caused me frustration. Only then, after some provoking from an ENFP and an ENFJ, did I realise that these were what these hoomans referred to as "expectations".

    After having gone through the process I think it'd be soo nice if someone provided a manual to these obviously subjective and completely wishy washy terms. The first entry should be about the term "happy". I'm still not entirely sure what it means but people use it frequently and I feel left out.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #46
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I only have close experience with one INTP, but he is not usually particularly direct with something that displeases him. He's more of a grumbler, to be honest. But to be fair, his expectations really are pretty low. Even as an introvert myself, I cannot reasonably expect him to be engaged in everything I'm saying. Half the time I don't even care, I just need a warm body to vent to. When something is important to me, true to what BlueWing has said, I've found the best way to approach him is calm, rational, brief, and very direct without being rude. And INTPs can definitely get in lecture mode when a subject is of great interest to them.

    All that said, Sunshine8, I think you did the right thing breaking it off. He didn't sound very invested in the relationship. Maybe someday he'll be good partner/father material, but he isn't yet.

    Every INTP is going to have times when they don't feel like they can really engage in things outside their heads, and need to be given the space to do that, but if it gets into more than three months or so, I'd say there's a problem.

    I'm glad you aren't wasting any more of your time with that guy.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #47
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    He doesn't seem that mature or interested in you.I'm INTP too and thats still not any excuse for the lack of effort he put into the relationship.
    (Refused to go to your house? seriously?)

  8. #48
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzAShadow View Post
    " but he doesn't seem particularly concerned about the response! I guess it is a slow process. What is weird is that sometimes he does remember things I have said very well - so something must occasionally be getting in "

    Simply put, when people talk to me, there is an emotional lag. I have no emotional connection to something when someone is telling me anything. Anytime I am being reactive to when someone is talking to me, it's because I'm acting out of fear that they will think that I don't care about what they are saying, so I put on a facade of some kind of emotional reaction that seems to fit.

    I only don't do this when I'm more comfortable with the person, so when a close friend is talking to me, I seem unresponsive.

    This does not mean he is not listening, it's just that, extraverted feeling is the least developed function for an INTP, so please don't misunderstand.

    As for fazing out when people are talking to him... I do that, as much as I'd like to really pay attention to them, it's reflexive that I withdraw into my own thoughts when people talk to me... for me it's more an issue that being around people are already draining my energy, then actually coming up to me and talking to me happens to be particularly demanding of my energy and attention span. I don't do it on purpose. However, I find that if I don't fight this I can recall everything that's said, trying to think of how to respond (response is very difficult for me) will cause me to lose track of the conversation, get even further lost into a complex of thoughts, and then I'm not even able to recall what has been said to me.

    Maybe I'm just socially inept, but, I think most INTPs struggle with this as well.

    Bottom line I guess, if he doesn't appear concerned about what your saying, don't take it personally? Being concerned and appearing concerned are completely different things for an INTP. Also, socializing in general is a very, very (in case two varies wasn't noticed, I put it there for a major emphasis) tedious task for an INTP, at least it is for me, I at least think I'm speaking for other INTPs... I don't know any others personally.

    As for parenting... I wouldn't know. However, I've always been very caring and generous for those I am close to. I'm incapable of showing any sort of enthusiasm about it though, it is particalulary draining for me, but I've always made sacrifices about it without a second thought. However, when people start voicing expectations of me, or even the disapproving look for when I don't meet their standards, I get frustrated... and my start developing feelings of contempt, and hate helping... I mean I really do give all I can when I'm not being asked, and with good will, and social expectations pressure me to some unfathomable degree. Actually... nearly every major stress point in my life has been when I detect (not necessarily told) that someone has expectations of me.

    I'd like to emphasize on this point though, I'm a different person, but I figure that maybe it'll give insight into an INTP's thought process.
    whoa...and now i think i know what my husband is!! what a trip! no wonder!! we speak completely different languages...i never understood that...because i can't tune someone out if i try...and i have tried...i know this was for the op but just wanted to say thanks for writing that all out

  9. #49
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    The phrase "different languages" would imply an S/N split.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That seems like it's backwards. The only time I'm the more talkative one is with other INTPs or INFPs, it seems. I like listening to ENFJs talk, so far almost universally. It makes me wonder if there's some underlying hatred coming from the INTP. First of all, be sure you're ENFJ, and be sure he's INTP. There are worse type matches to be in, and if either of you is mistyped, it's a different situation altogether.

    Speaking for myself as a relatively "mature" INTP, unless you've done something to royally screw with his head, I can't imagine he would have some kind of vendetta against you. I recognize the vulnerability and "soft logic" of ENFJs, and don't hold anything against it, and would give the average ENFJ quite a bit of leeway.

    Does he understand temperament difference? Something which can ruin us all is the assumption that everyone has the potential for the same capabilities, which is simply not true.
    wow jack

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