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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    One thing I do note though is quite often I listen to an ENFJ in mid rant about something (not always a rant but the lists/ brainstorming sometimes seem so similar) and figure out that half of what they're saying is fairly irrelevant, IMO, and so I just listen and nod at appropriate points waiting for the crux of the issue. Perhaps he is doing this whilst reading the newspaper?
    It's not irrelevant, it's irrational, and you can accept that, and care, or not care, or not accept it, and "book it outta there."

    Meditate on this.

  2. #22
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    To the OP: your very worry is probably the source of a large portion of the problem. As an INTP, I'll say that I despise expectations and once I know that someone is my "boss," I distance myself from that person rapidly. There is no other way to put it. I see an expectation as a demand to do something for some other reason than the true reason it should be done, and that makes it impossible for me to put my heart into what I am doing. In any good relationship of mine, expectations are nil.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Communicate this to him?

  4. #24
    señor member colmena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Communicate this to him?


    So true. So simple. If I was the INTP in question, I'd be upset that you came to a forum of strangers rather than talk to him directly (your heart's in the right place:given). As an INTP, he is likely psychologically minded, quite self-aware, and will have the proficiency to be objective about himself and the relationship. Discuss the disconnect with him, and build the trust that is ostensibly required. Don't look for external help when insular adversity will build strength and interdependence.

    Let me know if I'm way off.
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    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  5. #25
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    To the OP: your very worry is probably the source of a large portion of the problem. As an INTP, I'll say that I despise expectations and once I know that someone is my "boss," I distance myself from that person rapidly. There is no other way to put it. I see an expectation as a demand to do something for some other reason than the true reason it should be done, and that makes it impossible for me to put my heart into what I am doing. In any good relationship of mine, expectations are nil.
    Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and echo this.

    And add that I hate feeling like there are expectations of me that I don't feel very capable of meeting.

    As far as the future baby thing goes--it's possible he'd be very into the important things, such as spending time with the baby and giving good advice, etc. But he might think that the superfluous, feel-good part of it is kind of silly, ie endless baby crap shopping, showers, etc.

  6. #26
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's not irrelevant, it's irrational, and you can accept that, and care, or not care, or not accept it, and "book it outta there."

    Meditate on this.
    Tried that one. Usually they're telling me for completeness or trying to rationalise their decisions. I'm much happier if they just say "that's the way it is cause I said so", that I can deal with. The false rationalisations.... I tend to argue with those.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #27
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Sunshine8,

    Have you read Keirsey on The Rational Mindmate in Please Understand Me II?
    If not, I recommend it. Keirsey is INTP himself and he has a pretty good idea about what makes us tick.

    Extract:

    It is frequently, and sadly, the case that Rationals are misunderstood on one important point by their partners, who will accuse them of being cold and unemotional, and of seeming distant and unconcerned with their welfare. NTs, for their part, are amazed that their way of relating and loving can be seen by their mates as aloof or uncaring, for they know what powerful passions surge within them, and how keenly interested they are in their mates.

    I think you have caught a young one who might need to be thrown back into the pool to mature a bit until he recognises his good fortune in meeting his perfect match - type-wise, at any rate. What you are rubbing up against is the inviolability of his sense of personal autonomy, resentment of his own irrational impulses and emotions, abhorrence of interpersonal dependence, distaste for redundancy and sentimentality, obliviousness to domestic life and social niceties and high internal focus.

    Some of these things will mellow with time, some won't. You have to decide whether you can take the rough with the smooth, because trying to change an INTP is like trying to push water uphill. The fact that he is with you at all, and that he is worried about his neglect of you, speaks volumes, since we don't tend to take these things lightly. And if you do get together seriously, he is likely to stay in the relationship even if it makes you both unhappy, because we are perverse like that. So, as the more emotionally mature partner, you need to decide for the both of you what it is that you need from each other, and whether you are both able to supply it.

    I can tell you that he is never going to guess what you need from the relationship or how you need to be supported, so you must be explicit about it, and if you chafe at that, you are with the wrong guy. If you help him to understand in very clear and unemotional terms, (not with vague accusations like "you don't care about me", "I don't feel supported", etc, which won't mean anything to him), and if he does really care about you, he will do everything in his power to make you happy and you'll go a long way to find anyone more loyal and committed.

    Conversely, if he doesn't care enough, that will be apparent too.

  8. #28
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Can someone please explain what this "expectation" thing is?

    It seems to me that it's fair to have some sort of expectations from a relationship (expecting to talk or see the person a few times a week, go out together, be there for each other). Of course, you should communicate those expectations to see if they're acceptable to the partner, but honestly that doesn't happen much of the time. I'm sure INTPs have expectations as well. Do you all explicitly communicate your desire not to have expectations placed on you in a relationship or what expectations you do have? Are y'all saying that the partner should expect nothing from you or only accept what you're willing to give?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #29
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Can someone please explain what this "expectation" thing is?

    It seems to me that it's fair to have some sort of expectations from a relationship (expecting to talk or see the person a few times a week, go out together, be there for each other). Of course, you should communicate those expectations to see if they're acceptable to the partner, but honestly that doesn't happen much of the time. I'm sure INTPs have expectations as well. Do you all explicitly communicate your desire not to have expectations placed on you in a relationship or what expectations you do have? Are y'all saying that the partner should expect nothing from you or only accept what you're willing to give?
    I can't speak for all INTPs...but I will.

    We have less expectations than other types. We are very easy-going.
    We do expect to be left alone to some extent. If not, we prolly will do something about that. Like leave.

    Smothering =
    Anything else = whateva...

  10. #30
    Member g_vartan's Avatar
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    Sunshine,

    I've been there, done that

    You ask some very good questions and it seems very apparent that you are trying to understand and accommodate his needs and preferences as an INTP. One word of caution though, is this something you can do or sustain in the long-term? I would agree with several other's suggestion that it is futile to expect INTPs to change.

    As an ENFJ, my natural inclination is to give, nurture, and provide warmth to those I love and tend not to ask for much for myself --- but as my friends and family have pointed out, for me to be happy and continue to be the 'support' that I am to a lot of folks, my partner (who was an INTP) needs to meet some of those needs. What will you give out to others (or your partner) when there is nothing left to give?

    In addition, I think you already recognize that the INTP and ENFJ's 'love languages' are quite different --- you will need to learn how to pick it up as to not to demand that they always express it on an NF's terms. But likewise, he needs to learn not to be overwhelmed when you express your affection or desires. I think this was the most painful thing to me - as an ENFJ, I surround myself with people but there are very few that I let 'in', and the closest one was my INTP partner, and for him not to 'show or express' his affection when I needed it the most was heartbreaking for me.

    At the end of day, all I have to say is that you can try to understand the ways of the INTPs but you can't forget your needs and preferences because it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

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