[INTJ] INTJ- transcending the human condition

[BlackOp]

I can only speak for myself...but am curious if this particular type shares the same vantage. I "feel" as if I am sometimes an "owl on the branch"... merely an observer to a situation forced upon me. (I am using a Bukowski documentary title "born in to this" as a reference.) There are times where my mind has separated from the physical...electrical impulse like a gas cloud just passing through. I forget to eat or clean up after myself...usually when I am in heavy creative mode. My power went off and I didnt reset my clocks for two weeks. I should mention that I am an artist and dont have to adhere to any particular schedule at times. Its part of my creative process...like an actor getting into a role. Just curious if other intjs go through this...or it isolated due to my career path? I studied the master artists lifestyles (psychologically) in my youth. In particular Picasso and Kubrick (intj). I might have fused my life experiences into a work ethic/philosophy molded from these two. It is second nature at this point....7500 hours in. I am self taught and used these two as my professors...art school is for suckers.

I should add that when I complete a new body of work...I go back to being organized. I am two days into development (which may take a few months) of new material. My posts may get interesting.

 

[MissMurder]

Sounds like acid to me.

On a serious note, yes... I have experienced what you're referring to in a much smaller way.

 

[Uytuun]

Yes, beware the crazy. Or don't.

 

[BlackOp]

Yes, beware the crazy. Or don't.

In my line of work...."crazy" is the only way to achieve results. Show me an artist who wouldnt push it and I'll show you a guy designing Easter cards for Hallmark. You get what you settle for.....If I knew it was going to be this difficult, would have just got a PHD. It would have been half the work Teaching yourself to abandon structure/control was the hardest step.....and become "unconscious". The irony is the more you are willing to "give up" of yourself, the more it gives back...there is a lesson in there somewhere.

 

[Uytuun]

The productions of psychosis, eh? Yes, that's why I added the or don't.

I default to unconscious when left to my own devices. But it doesn't necessarily feel like losing control.

 

[Night]

In my line of work...."crazy" is the only way to achieve results. Show me an artist who wouldnt push it and I'll show you a guy designing Easter cards for Hallmark. You get what you settle for.....If I knew it was going to be this difficult, would have just got a PHD. It would have been half the work Teaching yourself to abandon structure/control was the hardest step.....and become "unconscious". The irony is the more you are willing to "give up" of yourself, the more it gives back...there is a lesson in there somewhere.

You make some really interesting points.

Here's to hoping you'll elaborate more on the abandonment/sundering of your learned processes to the uncertainties of one's subconscious.

Let's hope others realize the breadth you offer with this concept...

 

[BlackOp]

You make some really interesting points.

Here's to hoping you'll elaborate more on the abandonment/sundering of your learned processes to the uncertainties of one's subconscious.

Let's hope others realize the breadth you offer with this concept...

Its really hard to pinpoint. To quote William Burroughs "We all have days we cant hit for shit". There are days it flows effortlessly and others there is resistance. Kubrick was once asked what the hardest part of making a film was...he replied "getting out of the car". Your unconscious sometimes refuses to comply.... He went so far as to keep track of his diet and personal situations on creative/productive days as well as astrology.

There are times 8 hours seem like 30 minutes. I was discussing this my brother-in-law (PHD psychology), I cant remember the term but says this state is quite healthy. I always joked it was why I look 10 years younger than I am..(and the fact I've never been married). I have drank enough whiskey and smoked enough cigarettes to kill an elephant. When I'm productive and take a break....I can shoot pool with my eyes closed. Things just flow....and my surroundings are hypersensitive. It feels as if I have energy projecting from my body. It pretty fucking cool...and surreal at the same time.

It was a gradual process...like taking a chisel to a prison wall. Lots of failure along the way. This is why many an aspiring artist fail....its a pretty laborious task. Once your out though...there no going back. Like looking at life from the other side of a mirror.

I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing uncertain about the unconscious...it where pure truth manifests. All the answers people are seeking in their lives are spelled out for them in beautiful abstract metaphors. I am a big proponent of Carl Jung...as if it wasnt obvious.

 

[Provoker]

You make some really interesting points.

Here's to hoping you'll elaborate more on the abandonment/sundering of your learned processes to the uncertainties of one's subconscious.

Let's hope others realize the breadth you offer with this concept...

Funny, I was just ruminating over that line too. It's very Nietzschean - reminds me of the Joker from The Dark Night. While we are taught to strive for order to perpetuate business as usual, I think there's something aesthetically unique - even beautiful - in chaos.

 

[Night]

Funny, I was just ruminating over that line too. It's very Nietzschean - reminds me of the Joker from The Dark Night. While we are taught to strive for order to perpetuate business as usual, I think there's something aesthetically unique - even beautiful - in chaos.

You are on to something profound, Provoker.

What distinguishes humans from animals? The ability to thoughtfully adapt to imperfection.

What is imperfection, but unmolded clay? Chaos.

From chaos...

...what?

 

[Night]

Its really hard to pinpoint. To quote William Burroughs "We all have days we cant hit for shit". There are days it flows effortlessly and others there is resistance. Kubrick was once asked what the hardest part of making a film was...he replied "getting out of the car". Your unconscious sometimes refuses to comply.... He went so far as to keep track of his diet and personal situations on creative/productive days as well as astrology.

There are times 8 hours seem like 30 minutes. I was discussing this my brother-in-law (PHD psychology), I cant remember the term but says this state is quite healthy. I always joked it was why I look 10 years younger than I am..(and the fact I've never been married). I have drank enough whiskey and smoked enough cigarettes to kill an elephant. When I'm productive and take a break....I can shoot pool with my eyes closed. Things just flow.

It was a gradual process...like taking a chisel to a prison wall. Lots of failure along the way. Once your out though...there no going back. Like looking from the other side of the mirror.

Transcendence as an embrace. Embrace of what?

The will to act.

Confront yourself. Face the truth.



Ra's Al Ghul was right.

 

[zago]

Sounds like Ni and Te aren't balanced.

 

[BlackOp]

Sounds like Ni and Te aren't balanced.

extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************************** (29.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************** (26.9)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ****************************** (30.2)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************* (37.1)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************************* (31.2)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************** (32.3)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************** (16.8)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************ (36.2)
excellent use

 

[yugyug]

I know you're asking bonified INTJs your question, but I still want to answer because I sometimes test to be INTj. And, I am also a self-taught artist...and a writer. In both endeavors, I've been "in the zone" as you describe it, and I feel like I'm merely here as an observer. My reports on my findings can be found in my artworks and my writing. In the process, my body is on auto-pilot while my brain and soul connect with the paint or clay. Perhaps this is how all artists are, but I do think INT's have a tendency to experience the body/mind disconnect. They live in the world inside their heads and think of their body (and its needs) only when it gets their attention.

Teaching yourself to abandon structure/control was the hardest step.....and become "unconscious". The irony is the more you are willing to "give up" of yourself, the more it gives back...there is a lesson in there somewhere.

Intuitive, you are. I'm having the hardest time with this. With my writing, I've been doing it longer and there's little control once I get started. With my art, I've taken it seriously (as a career option) only recently, and I'm having a hard time letting myself just run in it with abandon.

There are times 8 hours seem like 30 minutes. ((cut)) ...I can shoot pool with my eyes closed. Things just flow....and my surroundings are hypersensitive. It feels as if I have energy projecting from my body. It pretty fucking cool...and surreal at the same time.

Very well said. Exactly how it is when I'm having a good "in the zone" day.

It was a gradual process...like taking a chisel to a prison wall. Lots of failure along the way. This is why many an aspiring artist fail....its a pretty laborious task. Once your out though...there no going back. Like looking at life from the other side of a mirror.

I'm on the other side of the mirror with my writing, so I know what I'm looking for as I chisel on the prison wall for my artwork. You, like my INTJ hubby, are very good at analogies.

I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing uncertain about the unconscious...it where pure truth manifests. All the answers people are seeking in their lives are spelled out for them in beautiful abstract metaphors.

Interesting thought. Something to chew on. Thanks.

 

[Ism]

'Sounds very liberating and transcendentalistic.

Y'know, I remember reading from this one website that described the basic functions (N/S, F/T) in terms of some kind of spatial abstraction. When they described the characteristics of the INTJ type, it was very much like a kind of intangible energy.

You're very lucky, I think.

 

[Maabus1999]

I can only speak for myself...but am curious if this particular type shares the same vantage. I "feel" as if I am sometimes an "owl on the branch"... merely an observer to a situation forced upon me. (I am using a Bukowski documentary title "born in to this" as a reference.) There are times where my mind has separated from the physical...electrical impulse like a gas cloud just passing through. I forget to eat or clean up after myself...usually when I am in heavy creative mode. My power went off and I didnt reset my clocks for two weeks. I should mention that I am an artist and dont have to adhere to any particular schedule at times. Its part of my creative process...like an actor getting into a role. Just curious if other intjs go through this...or it isolated due to my career path? I studied the master artists lifestyles (psychologically) in my youth. In particular Picasso and Kubrick (intj). I might have fused my life experiences into a work ethic/philosophy molded from these two. It is second nature at this point....7500 hours in. I am self taught and used these two as my professors...art school is for suckers.

I should add that when I complete a new body of work...I go back to being organized. I am two days into development (which may take a few months) of new material. My posts may get interesting.

Try to think beyond your senses (3-D) and try to let your subconscience flow into the dimensions of 4,5, and 6. You may get some strange revelations about the world. K that's crazy speak!

 

[Harlow_Jem]

Maybe it's just undiagnosed mania/hypomania?

 

[BlackOp]

Maybe it's just undiagnosed mania/hypomania?

No..as it is deliberate. I can be a precise, pragmatic MF if I have to....that will never leave me. If the seat 'gets too hot", I simply move. This is more about harnessing a "condition" in small doses than being a genetic victim. This is where the intj mindset makes its play.... I have learned to manufacture psychosis and get an honest observation (or at least 80%). I get to play "crazy" and its not a farce.

 

[Jack Flak]

That's typical INTJ behavior, you know, to F with people to see how they react.

 

[BlackOp]

You're very lucky, I think.

Lucky to the casual observer...this is truly ruff business. I joke that I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemies.....but might suggest it to my closest friends.

 

[BlackOp]

That's typical INTJ behavior, you know, to F with people to see how they react.

Doesnt matter at that point...really doesnt. Its as if something is speaking through you...and you just know. Hard to describe.....