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[NT] Shallow Ns

The Ü™

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Most Ns just pretend to be deep.

And Extroversion is generally associated with shallowness, Introversion with deepness.

Of course, it also depends on your definition of what is shallow and what is deep.
 

SillySapienne

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Most Ns just pretend to be deep.
I can't speak for all Ns, but for myself, and for the NF temperament, in general, the mere thought of having to pretend to be anything but yourself is just plain icky.

Feigning depth is like the least deep thing a person can do.
 

Dwigie

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"I made a thread about this, you should come over there."=>http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/9834-deep-shallow-4.html
Yeah we were trying to define deep and "shallow" but flighty is more appropriate.
And it's funny but I always found SP and SJs to fit the "deep" stereotype for some reason.
I have had a lot of experiences with the "high and mighty" Ns you talked about.
I made it a point to not act that way, thank god. I'm definitely the "flighty" sort but not high and mighty. I still don't think I'm very deep and I think life experience has a lot to do with it too.
 

Uytuun

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Yeah, N's can certainly be shallow!

(Normally it's referred to as "flighty" though.)

Daydreamers also actually sort of shallow, and N's get caught up in that alot.

Why are daydreamers shallow?
 

BerberElla

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haven't you ever met someone who thinks they're profound but is totally useless in daily life? They're so profound that they're completely ignorant of the realities of life, which ruins any depth they think they've found.

:hug: You know me so well lol

I think S's can be very deep, you just need to be ready for when they go digging down like that.

I also think being shallow is something an N can do just as easily and unthinkingly and you believe an S does.

To me being being shallow also encompasses being too up your own N ass to believe that an S is capable of deepness (not meaning you specifically) or that an F is capable of thinking (and dismissing both functions as being too far beneath you to befriend, that's shallow).
 

sarah

soft and silky
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Meh, I'd be careful of that.

S people are more concrete than abstract by definition.
It doesn't mean they can't have deep thoughts, or that they're shallow.

I think too as people become older, they become more nuanced, and S's look deeper than the surface, just as N's get more grounded and stop being so flighty. The best S's I know can go very deep; they also just usually retain a strong sense of practicality and paying attention to what's around them, they're very realistic and don't like "deep abstractions" as an end in themselves, they want it to be useful to accomplish some end or make their lives richer and/or more successful..


That's very true. SPs and SJs tend to be more interested in wanting to connect what they're learning to real life, which means that just philosophizing for the heck of it tends to take a lower priority than, say, getting things done that need to be done which would have immediate value to us now. That doesn't mean I never think about anything below the surface -- but I do tend to be on the lookout for ideas that could have relevance to my life today. If you can show me how your deep insights could have practical applications, I'm all ears! I do think "deeply" about some things, but not about all things, which I think is true for everybody, including intuitives.

Searching for stuff that has "relevance to today" would be the reason why, if I were given the choice between spending a Saturday repainting the inside of my kitchen cabinets or spending that same day attending a lecture on philosophy, I'd choose the former, since it seems more fun (physical) and more relevant to my happiness today (fresh-looking cabinets to enjoy for years to come). But if you convince me that the all-day lecture on philosophy will be understandable to someone who doesn't have a background in that subject area, and that there will be frequent breaks so I don't feel like my legs have atrophied, AND that it would have profound relevance to my life today, then I would definitely consider doing that instead.
:)

Being dominant Fi, I tend to think very deepy about things, people and ideas that matter to me. Being an I*S*FP, what I think about more often has to do with improving my relationships than about pondering abstract stuff purely out of intellectual curiosity.

Sarah
ISFP
 

Cimarron

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sarah said:
...[For SPs and SJs,] philosophizing for the heck of it tends to take a lower priority than, say, getting things done that need to be done which would have immediate value to us now.
Yes, lower priority.
 

wildcat

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I don't know about that... Ns that take great effort at thinking about pointless things are still considered "deep" by those that value deepness at the surface level.

This is just definition hopping. "Shallow" has a negative connotation, but can be associated against concrete thinkers. MBTI asks if you are concrete. Tada!

The operative word is ability, notably different than preference.
Yes.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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Shallowness in terms of values wouldn't correspond to type as far as I understand it.

There is a danger in shallowness of thought that could apply to Ns as a type. The idea that "I'm going to use my intuition and jump to the following conclusion" can be a significant problem that can result in prejudicial thinking. iNtuition like any other cognitive function is only as good as the input from which it draws its conclusions. iNtuition must be honed in the same way any other function should be. For example, a person is only intuitive about behavior in others if they have a vast amount of accurate data to draw from. The iNtuitive process of thinking doesn't need every fact lined out linearly before arriving at a conclusion, but it seems especially dangerous to place confidence in such conclusions if they cannot be defended and if they do in fact draw on bad information. To be a deep and accurate thinker as an iNtuitive requires an extra dose of humility and willingness to continually draw in new and better information through observation that isn't distorted by previous assumptions.

If my last statement is correct, then arrogance in iNtuitive thought might tend to translate into shallowness of thought because it jumps to conclusions in a closed minded manner that isn't teachable.
 

Simplexity

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^Excellent point. I honestly think that is something a lot of people don't understand or don't necessarily take care to think deeply about when it comes to intuition. You did an excellent job of reasoning out just how intuitive thinking can be both productive and dangerous, I actually had a similar conversation with my friend about how I learn and how he did as a sensor.

I was struggling to articulate my thoughts like you did, but internally I sort of knew that maybe I might not have a good sense of recall(he didn't believe me when I said I didn't read my notes over and over and over like him) but that through reading a lot of information I could hone my reasoning( intuitive) skills where I didn't have to "memorize" terms, words, or events. He is a history major, and our differing reasoning skills are very evident in our discussions.

That was sort of a derailment, but I think it is very necessary to understand how your thinking process can contribute to being shallow.
 
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