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  1. #31
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Mort - most of the parents only participate when their kids are giving performances...
    Carpool?
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  2. #32
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    What is it with ENTPs and (over?)sensitivity towards manipulation?

    I wrote a long paragraph addressing your situation, and then struck from it all assumptions. What's left: don't go to the church, but let your daughter go.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I think I'll just have a chat with her and let her know that whilst I'm more than happy to go to see her plays at school or drama club or whatever, she'll just have to accept that at church I probably won't for the time being...
    I think this is a good thing to do. I, for one, am very in favor of you giving your kid independence to choose whether she attends or not. And an attempt to explain your absence from those events as an issue with the church, NOT as a lack of support for her, may be helpful. Granted--she's twelve, so she may have trouble understanding... but eventually she'll get it.

    I'm curious about your frustrations with the church at the moment, but that's not really relevant to the topic at hand. Suffice to say, as a fellow Anglican, I can relate to frustration with the church, though as an Episcopalian, I find much to be encouraged by.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  4. #34
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    That might be hard to teach to a twelve year old Fe-dom.

    As a Ti-dom at that age could you have been taught that there are things of more value in life than mere integrity and that we should all be out socialising? I know I couldn't have been.
    ...




    You've got a point.

    Integrity is more important. Fe-dom's will just have to accept our authorita!

  5. #35
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    What is it with ENTPs and (over?)sensitivity towards manipulation?
    Something about freewill being some sort of prerequisite for integrity, which is like, a value... or something

    I wrote a long paragraph addressing your situation, and then struck from it all assumptions. What's left: don't go to the church, but let your daughter go.
    Haha, yeah... glad to know I'm already doing the only realistic choice

    Eileen
    - maybe it's just the C of E over here, or even just this diocese, I don't know, but it seems to me that the organization is inherently set up in a way that inevitably results in it all being little more than a "middle class, middle aged" club. I wrote something about it here, but this only scratches the surface...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  6. #36
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    Just to the OP: Suck it up. From a child's perspective, it can be incredibly hurtful to not have parental support at a special event or "performance", Fe-dom or no.

    It wasn't as if she chose a church youth group out a phone book. She hasn't had the religuous choices/chances you've had. She chose to go this church or go to none. She chose to be with you instead of not.

    You said yourself that the youth group isn't harmful to her- and if it is the hypocrisy of the clergy which gets your goat- neither of which I think is exemplified by these performance pieces (led by volunteers). Even if there *is* the intention to put your butt in the seat in the Anglican church- if your religious convictions are that integritous, it shouldn't matter whether or not you hear any such stuff. Their intentions may be to "reconvert" you, but you are there to support your daughter.

  7. #37
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I relate to your situation, but I also think that you're placing a little too much importance on your integrity, as opposed to supporting your daughter. I was never a kid that required my parents to go to every single thing I was in, but I do know that for a lot of kids, it's very, very important--and that they feel kind of unanchored without it. And even as an NT, it would hurt if I found out that you had actually thought of it as "choosing your spiritual integrity over her." (I know you wouldn't tell her that, but still....) I understand the struggle, but at the same time, it seems to me that you could sit through a few performances for her sake. Just focus on your daughter the whole time, instead of thinking about hypocrisy and manipulation and what the church will assume by your presence there.

    If I were you, I'd explain to your daughter as best you can that you're choosing not to go to church right now, but it's fine if she attends. And that you love her, but the two of you will have to reach a compromise. If these things are monthly, maybe tell her you'll come to 5 performances a year, and she can pick which five.

    I don't think, overall, it's a terrible thing for parents not to attend every single performance their kid is in, though. I mean, there is no way I'd be able to force myself to spend all my Saturdays watching 10 year olds play soccer. But you just need to be careful that she doesn't feel as if you've chosen something (even your integrity) over her. Kids don't really understand something like that.

  8. #38
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Well, actually I just had a long talk with her and things are fine. She actually said "Most of these things are only about 2 or 3 minutes long and I'm only there because they pressure me to take part, I don't really want to but I know if I don't take part then they won't have enough people so I don't want to hurt [the leader]'s feelings. It's not like I work really hard on it or anything, it doesn't really mean much to me anyway, so it doesn't bother me if you don't come."

    She's actually aware, she told me, that she feels manipulated herself, into taking part at all. She says she feels emotionally pressured into supporting the performances but actually resents the way they tie her up and commit her to extra rehearsals and stuff when she'd rather be doing other stuff. She also said, in her own words "they only do the plays to make us have to keep going because of rehearsals, cos otherwise most of the kids don't go every week".

    So, it seems in my anxiousness to not tread on her feelings or underestimate the importance of them, I'd actually overestimated those feelings anyway. She also said "you always come to all my other stuff so I know you support me".

    So there, Tallulah-and-colors-I'm-used-to-you-both-always-telling-me-off-now

    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #39
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    So there, Tallulah-and-colors-I'm-used-to-you-both-always-telling-me-off-now

    Oh, yeah, well, I'm used to you always soliciting feedback for the choice you wanted to make in the first place. So there!

    Glad things worked out for you.

  10. #40
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    I'm glad y'all came to an understanding too.

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