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  1. #11
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    You say that like you assume I haven't already... which of course, I have. What I'm saying is that this is of little comfort for her. To her, she just feels like 'something else' is more important to me than supporting her, and that hurts, she can't really see past that.

    She's aware of the whole story of my struggles with the church and the clergy, fully aware. Just, to her, none of that should matter when it comes to her 'needing' me.
    I that case you options are very limted.

    Your best bet in this case is that something else will turn her against this activity .
    Be patient.

  2. #12
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    ah yes, there's the other thing that's being used to manipulate or "should" me into going to church... K was confirmed earlier this year. It seems most people seem to think that I shouldn't have "let" her be confirmed if *I* was falling out with the church. But we're two separate people, so I don't see it that way. I don't see my spiritual issues as being obliged to have an impact on her religious options; she wanted to be confirmed of her own volition, and as I said to her at the time, she'd always be free to keep attending and participating if it's what she believes in, even if I don't, I'd never stop her following what she felt was right for her; she makes her own choices and I make mine, that's always been something I've made a point of with my kids.

    But... the clergy and many others it seems, see it as my responsibility to support her confirmation and membership of the church by full participating membership myself. I just don't see it that way... but whilst I'm able to resist the guilt trips and shrug it off and do my own thing, I HAVE to consider the emotional impact it has on K, who is too young to understand a lot of it and just probably feels confused.

    I dunno, I'm starting to question whether I was right to be so liberal with her - if I'd just said 'you have to go to church' before and 'I don't believe in it any more so we're not going any more', maybe she'd have just dealt with it. Perhaps giving her all this choice has just confused her, sent mixed messages etc...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #13
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    some F input would be pertinent at this point... lol


    *Feelotard*
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I dunno, I'm starting to question whether I was right to be so liberal with her - if I'd just said 'you have to go to church' before and 'I don't believe in it any more so we're not going any more', maybe she'd have just dealt with it. Perhaps giving her all this choice has just confused her, sent mixed messages etc...
    Nah, been there as a kid (probably you too, I presume from the OP) and maybe it's easier to deal with imposed religion and religious rituals while in a very young age but becomes complicated almost immediately once you've grown up a little bit.

    You're dealing it ok, in my opinion. Prolly the fact she's Fe dominant is less important compared to the fact she's young and doesn't fully understand the situation. But growing older she'll see things more clearly and she'll appreciate much more the fact you respected her personal choices. It might seems hard for her right now, but it's only a matter of time before she's fully able to understand why you do what you're doing.

    Oh and I used all Fe I could find around for this post

  5. #15
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    How old is K? If you don't mind me asking. I mean it is a little excessive for a play every week, could you scale it down to visit once every one or two months?

    If she resents it at first and gets used to it, it might not be such a problem. Even if it means that it's not until a couple of years later that she fully understands your point of view, it still won't be one of those entire life complaints of, "My father didn't attend my plays."
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  6. #16
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    It's your responsibility to support her in her spiritual growth. If you think the church she attends falls short in certain areas, and this precludes your becoming a member in that church, then you'd be doing K a disservice by pretending that everything is OK. To do so would be a violation of the 9th commandment: by failing to speak the whole truth, and by failing to live in accordance with the truth, you would be complicit in the propogation of a lie--a watchmen who fails to sound the alarm is held responsible for the consequences he could have prevented if he'd done his duty.

    This may hurt K's feelings, but you'd be doing more damage to her in the long run if you compromise the truth by accomodating her feelings.

    Of course, this assumes you're in possession of the truth--if you're unsure, then you should remain silent.

  7. #17
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    She's 12 Mort, and it's not every week, more like once a month. But that's more than too much for me... TBH the way church attendance is in the UK (as I'm sure you know), once a month makes me officially a 'regular attender', and things become expected of me, assumptions made, etc...

    Owl - I'm not 'pretending everything's ok' and I'm not 'witholding the truth' from my daughter, and never have. For all I know, in the future I might change my mind again and go back to church. But I know that before that can even be on the table as a possibility, I have to feel like it's entirely MY choice as to whether or not I do. This is my spiritual journey and I believe everyone's spiritual journey should be self-directed. that's why, regardless of what conclusions I, personally, come to as regards religion, I won't push them onto my kids. I might inform them of my opinions, and perhaps those opinions will influence them in some way or another. But ultimately they're to draw their own conclusions and be responsible for them. And as they go through their lives they'll have other influences that can either confirm or undermine those I've had on them.

    But you should know I'm not a "Bible Christian", so no point quoting chapter and verse at me
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #18
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    She's 12 Mort, and it's not every week, more like once a month. But that's more than too much for me... TBH the way church attendance is in the UK (as I'm sure you know), once a month makes me officially a 'regular attender', and things become expected of me, assumptions made, etc...
    I'm not in UK, my body lies over the ocean.

    Is that what annoys you the most; the assumptions and expectations of the adherents? Does it ever manifest into obligation? Or is your violated principles, or is that you plain don't like the other people about?

    It sounds to me like your daughter really enjoyed the time when the two of you shared something in a communal setting and she really wants you to be a part of it again.

    Could you find something else to fill that void for her, some other communal participation, (for example scouts, another church, players productions) that you could both be a part of that has nothing to do with this church? Even if she has a lot of friends at this place, when she finds that you're reluctant to go, she might follow you to something else.


    Or am I way off?
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  9. #19
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Sorry Mort, I guess the Simon Amstell thing misled me... lol

    Well, it's a combination of all three, and other stuff besides. But like I say, my personal spiritual journey isn't the issue here, more the question as to how it should/shouldn't or does/doesn't intertwine with those of my kids...

    We do a load of other stuff together, I'm a typical restless ENTP in the respect that I'm forever travelling and exploring and going to new places, and my kids come with me on almost every trip I take and we share our discoveries and talk about stuff together the whole time. I'm pretty sure both my kids would have their work cut out to make a case for me not giving them enough quality time...

    I think I'll just have a chat with her and let her know that whilst I'm more than happy to go to see her plays at school or drama club or whatever, she'll just have to accept that at church I probably won't for the time being...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #20
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    Since I'm 'closer' to the age of your daughter than yours (I suppose), I think that if you let her go to the church and you don't go to see her plays, you'll be in trouble. She needs your support and if you're not there, in the future she'll be bitter about that.
    If you don't want to go by any means to the church, I suggest you to take her out and give her the option of another social activity. K likes plays, doesn't she? Isn't there any group for playing or something like that?

    Uhm, and I wanted to tell you that I think it's awesome that you let your kids take the choice of going to the church. Giving you the choice of thinking by yourself is the best a parent can do.
    5w4 - Idiosyncratic/Leisurely/Dramatic
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