[MBTI General] How is it possible to be Enneagram 4/INTJ?

[INTJMom]

For myself, I don't consider it being shoe-horned. I consider it not being so cantankerous and disagreeable. I consider it being more cooperative. Really, I am much happier this way.

 

[felt up]

Hmm, could be that INTJ is mostly correlated with type 1. On a healthiness scale, 1s become 4ish when they are under stress.

 

[Trunks]

I'm an INTJ and had 4 in my enneagram, I'm logical thinker. I'm more thinker than feeler, I don't made decision base on feeling. And I know my emotion very well. I tend to reject people a lot in my life due to certain reasons. I know it's pretty rare to have E4 especially an INTJ..I just found this thread actually.

 

[Trunks]

Is there any info about 4-5-1/4-1-5? I can't find any info about it.

 

[think2much]

very possible but rare. I'm INTP 4w3 sx/so. It's like war inside my head. I wish I was enneagram 5.

 

[Society]

I finally went and took an enneagram test and it came back as 4, with the next highest being a 5. Reading through the descriptions, I related very well with both of them, and agree that the 4 is probably a bit more apt.

So how is it that an INTJ who is supposedly the 'least likely to express emotion' is the 'Romantic' Hyper-sensitive feeling enneagram type?

Reading through both the 4 and 5 description I recall thinking 'The 4 is a good way to describe the emotional mess inside, but the 5 is what I try to use to deal with the rest of the world'.

Something about this just screams 'how is this possible?'

Can anyone give me some insight as to how the enneagram works in conjunction with the MBTI type?

Maybe this doesnt belong under the NT thread, but I thought maybe the other NT's might be able to shed some light.

ok, i just came up with a hunch that could potentially allow us to understand the ennegram-MBTI interaction better:

hpoyhetically, enneagram types stem from fears and insecurities... basically from our unhealthy malfunctions. so, when asking what type can a certain MBTI be, you need to look at the function loops.

for example, as an ENTP, the most common type i've noticed is 7s. why would that be the case? IMO it's because of internal Ti-Si malfunction loops leading to constantly deducting probably deprivations. me on the other hand, an ENTP type 4, am probably like that because of Ne-Fe narcissistic loop that constantly see's various possibilities in myself and gets emotionally attached to them and questioning their significance from an outside perspective, leading to a constant self-seeking behavior. not surprisingly 7 is a close second - my full tri-type is 4w5 7w8 8w7.

so with this in mind, INTJs have two possible loops: Te-Se and Ni-Fi.
going by my new hypothesis, which one could be causing your type4 fear of having no identity or personal significance?

 

[lunalum]

I finally went and took an enneagram test and it came back as 4, with the next highest being a 5. Reading through the descriptions, I related very well with both of them, and agree that the 4 is probably a bit more apt.

So how is it that an INTJ who is supposedly the 'least likely to express emotion' is the 'Romantic' Hyper-sensitive feeling enneagram type?

Reading through both the 4 and 5 description I recall thinking 'The 4 is a good way to describe the emotional mess inside, but the 5 is what I try to use to deal with the rest of the world'.

Something about this just screams 'how is this possible?'

Can anyone give me some insight as to how the enneagram works in conjunction with the MBTI type?

Maybe this doesnt belong under the NT thread, but I thought maybe the other NT's might be able to shed some light.

The bolded is the key part here. 4s are not necessarily directly emotionally expressive. 4s, IME, are much more "still waters run deep" or "my mind is an uniquely beautiful enigma that can only be expressed through some sophisticated masterpiece that has 500 meanings where 498 of them will never be understood." This isn't exactly unheard of for INTJs....

 

[HBIC]

I finally went and took an enneagram test and it came back as 4, with the next highest being a 5. Reading through the descriptions, I related very well with both of them, and agree that the 4 is probably a bit more apt.

So how is it that an INTJ who is supposedly the 'least likely to express emotion' is the 'Romantic' Hyper-sensitive feeling enneagram type?

Reading through both the 4 and 5 description I recall thinking 'The 4 is a good way to describe the emotional mess inside, but the 5 is what I try to use to deal with the rest of the world'.

Something about this just screams 'how is this possible?'

Can anyone give me some insight as to how the enneagram works in conjunction with the MBTI type?

Maybe this doesnt belong under the NT thread, but I thought maybe the other NT's might be able to shed some light.

Perfectly possible, i.e. me.

MBTI and enneagram measure different things. MBTI tends to look at behaviour preferences, where as enneagram looks at motivations.

While there are some MBTI and enneagram pairs that seem more popular than others, any MBTI type can have any enneagram type.

You'd think people would have lock the diffrence down already.

Enneagram has more to do with philosophies, preferences, and motives. The MBTI is more about how your mind functions. The two are fairly different, so they don'y have to overlap much.

INTJs most tend to be 5s. 4s Are more moody than 5s, but they are similarly avoidant, so it's really not a terrible stretch for an INTJ to be a 4 instead of a 5.

This is sort of like me... its hard to explain.

I was told by an ENFJ friend that I go to great lengths to separate myself from the pack, to an almost undesirable level in his mind. He was the one that constantly harassed me for not caring what others thought of me (IE Not going tanning!?!) and hated when I would ask him WHY he cared so much about what people thought of him.

I definately feel the duality that it talked about, striving to be unique but feeling sad about being separated from the rest of the world because of it. Its a kind of lose-lose situation.

Add to that the INTJ independent mind and the lack of respect for authority and you get a really 'weird' person. Where INTJ's are weird, I guess the Enneagram 4 only adds to it because I DELIBERATELY try to be different.

This is really hard to put into words.

I kind of live in this intense, inner world full of exploited emotions, where I spend a lot of time 'phsychologizing' myself, digging deep to find the hidden reasons for my actions and decisions. I'll bring myself to tears sometimes getting lost in this self-exploration... and then I dig my way out of it with logic and reason, systematically filing all of the feelings away and neatly categorizing them, and then writing clever poetry about it.

Each time this happens, I feel like I've learned something else about myself, and I feel a little bit more calm and content. After years of doing this I find that it happens less and less, and I'd say I'm currently pretty happy with my life all in all.

The only thing that remains as a constant thorn is the feeling of 'loneliness' and separation from the rest of the world that I can't seem to shake... yet I continue to reject anything to do with 'pop culture'. I'm getting better in this arena too though, IE listening to more modern music, watching shows that people talk about, etc. In years before, I would have avoided them like the plague because 'everyone else was doing it'.

Except for the rejecting pop culture bit, it's all my territory.

Wouldn't it be more satisfying to seek out like-minded individuals you can discuss in a frank and open manner with rather than shoehorning yourself into a mold you think maybe these quote-unquote normal people will accept?

THIS.

Trust me to bring a '08 thread back from the dead

 

[chubber]

The bolded is the key part here. 4s are not necessarily directly emotionally expressive. 4s, IME, are much more "still waters run deep" or "my mind is an uniquely beautiful enigma that can only be expressed through some sophisticated masterpiece that has 500 meanings where 498 of them will never be understood." This isn't exactly unheard of for INTJs....

Haha... yeah when somebody asks me to explain something.

 

[highlander]

It's probably not impossible but extremely unlikely.

 

[chubber]

What would be really rare for INTJ is 2, 7, 9

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

It wouldn't really be that rare considering the fact that Type 4 is often associated with both Ni and Fi. I think one of the reasons it isn't so prevalent is due to the sp variant mistyping as 5s, 6s, 1s, and possibly 8s.