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Thread: INTP + ESTJ

  1. #21
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    INTP will have to talk more and be more patient

    ESTJ will have to listen more and know when to shut tup

  2. #22
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    INTP will have to talk more and be more patient

    ESTJ will have to listen more and know when to shut tup
    That's more of a general E vs. I thing, isn't it? From my experience, the problems with ESTJ/INTP relations come more from their similarities, e.g. Both types need to be aware of the other's feelings, and respond accordingly, and both need to work at understanding the other one.

    My dad is an INTP. I have a good relationship with him, generally. Areas for conflict generally arise in these areas:
    - Him wishing that I was more of a "leader", which, by his standards, means "innovator", which I'm really not
    - Him enjoying pointing out my flaws and laughing at them (when he's in a certain mood)
    - Like Jack Flak (r.i.p.) mentioned earlier, a lot of bizarre miscommunication
    - Him being impossible to reason with when he's upset
    - One of us reacting badly to the other when one is upset with something that the other doesn't think is a big deal (e.g. "Whoa, man, take a chill pill!" Hooray for poor emotional intelligence.)

    Someone said earlier that ESTJ and INTP go together worst of all. I disagree - my experiences with ENTPs have been much worse. With ENTPs and ESTJs, I find that since ENTPs are so much more... uh... prone towards debate... that you get interactions like this all the time:
    ESTJ: These are the rules.
    ENTP: But they don't make sense! They should be like this and this.
    ESTJ: They do make sense! They exist for a reason!
    ENTP: But wouldn't it be BETTER if it were like this and this?
    ... in short...
    ESTJ: Respect mah authoritah!
    ENTP: No! YOU respect mah cool ideas!
    ...This doesn't make for a lot of fun interactions. Debates go nowhere. We're just on such different wavelengths. (I agree with the previous statement that it's a Te vs. Ti thing - same with INTPs as with ENTPs, only worse with ENTPs because of the clashing extraversion.)
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  3. #23
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    That's more of a general E vs. I thing, isn't it? From my experience, the problems come more from the similarities, e.g. Both types need to be aware of the other's feelings, and respond accordingly, and both need to work at understanding the other one.

    My dad is an INTP. I have a good relationship with him, generally. Areas for conflict generally arise in these areas:
    - Him wishing that I was more of a "leader", which, by his standards, means "innovator", which I'm really not
    - Him enjoying pointing out my flaws and laughing at them (when he's in a certain mood)
    - Like Jack Flak (r.i.p.) mentioned earlier, a lot of bizarre miscommunication
    - Him being impossible to reason with when he's upset
    - One of us reacting badly to the other when one is upset with something that the other doesn't think is a big deal (e.g. "Whoa, man, take a chill pill!" Hooray for poor emotional intelligence.)

    Someone said earlier that ESTJ and INTP go together worst of all. I disagree - my experiences with ENTPs have been much worse. With ENTPs and ESTJs, I find that since ENTPs are so much more... uh... prone towards debate... that you get interactions like this all the time:
    ESTJ: These are the rules.
    ENTP: But they don't make sense! They should be like this and this.
    ESTJ: They do make sense! They exist for a reason!
    ENTP: But wouldn't it be BETTER if it were like this and this?
    ... in short...
    ESTJ: Respect mah authoritah!
    ENTP: No! YOU respect mah cool ideas!
    ...This doesn't make for a lot of fun interactions. Debates go nowhere. We're just on such different wavelengths. (I agree with the previous statement that it's a Te vs. Ti thing - same with INTPs as with ENTPs, only worse with ENTPs because of the clashing extraversion.)

    Your reasons for following the rules never make good sense to me, one of your reasons would be that it has always been done that way. It's that SJ mentality in maintaining the status quo that makes you behave like this, fear of change, it never seems to matter even if an alternative method would be more efficient and in the end make our lives easier.

  4. #24
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    Your reasons for following the rules never make good sense to me, one of your reasons would be that it has always been done that way. It's that SJ mentality in maintaining the status quo that makes you behave like this, fear of change, it never seems to matter even if an alternative method would be more efficient and in the end make our lives easier.
    Firstly, let's not jump to generalizations. If there's proof that your alternate methods work, a healthy ESTJ shouldn't have any problem with them. We aren't pro-status quo ALL the time.

    Secondly, it would be nice if this thread wouldn't turn into a "What is it with you people??" thread. It's insulting to everyone - after all, people who go that route are dissing on something that's innate, and that they can't change that well. For instance, the bolded statement, which I find to be closed-minded and judgmental. One of the reasons that this forum is so great is that it exposes people to different mindsets, and learning to accept that there isn't one right way to go about things. Being judgmental isn't going to help much with that.

    Thirdly, my ENTP anecdote was, in part, self-deprecating, just to clarify. I was not insulting the ENTP (/INTP) way of thinking.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Firstly, let's not jump to generalizations. If there's proof that your alternate methods work, a healthy ESTJ shouldn't have any problem with them. We aren't pro-status quo ALL the time.

    Secondly, it would be nice if this thread wouldn't turn into a "What is it with you people??" thread. It's insulting to everyone - after all, people who go that route are dissing on something that's innate, and that they can't change that well. For instance, the bolded statement, which I find to be closed-minded and judgmental. One of the reasons that this forum is so great is that it exposes people to different mindsets, and learning to accept that there isn't one right way to go about things. Being judgmental isn't going to help much with that.

    Thirdly, my ENTP anecdote was, in part, self-deprecating, just to clarify. I was not insulting the ENTP (/INTP) way of thinking.
    Sorry I didn't mention that you don't even seem like an ESTJ to me, but you might be the first healthy one I've seen.
    Yes I do tend to generalize and I wasn't personally attacking you, just your type. I have become bitter from experience with them.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Someone said earlier that ESTJ and INTP go together worst of all. I disagree - my experiences with ENTPs have been much worse.
    maybe thats because the intps are less expressive of their thoughts, you've jsut gone and filled in the blanks yourself. estjs do this to me all the time and they're never even close, it's ridiculous, so i wonder who the heck the estj thinks they've been talking to all this time.

  7. #27
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    I personally think it would be a nightmare.

    Though maybe an ESTJ would be good for a super-passive INTP that desperately needs someone to straighten them out.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Someone said earlier that ESTJ and INTP go together worst of all. I disagree - my experiences with ENTPs have been much worse. With ENTPs and ESTJs, I find that since ENTPs are so much more... uh... prone towards debate... that you get interactions like this all the time:
    ESTJ: These are the rules.
    ENTP: But they don't make sense! They should be like this and this.
    ESTJ: They do make sense! They exist for a reason!
    ENTP: But wouldn't it be BETTER if it were like this and this?
    ... in short...
    ESTJ: Respect mah authoritah!
    ENTP: No! YOU respect mah cool ideas!
    ...This doesn't make for a lot of fun interactions. Debates go nowhere. We're just on such different wavelengths. (I agree with the previous statement that it's a Te vs. Ti thing - same with INTPs as with ENTPs, only worse with ENTPs because of the clashing extraversion.)
    You have further convinced me that I'm ENTP not INTP.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    That's more of a general E vs. I thing, isn't it? From my experience
    DUH...miscommunication, or the lack thereof, is the key to relationships from where i stand

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ESTJ: These are the rules.
    ENTP: But they don't make sense! They should be like this and this.
    ESTJ: They do make sense! They exist for a reason!
    ENTP: But wouldn't it be BETTER if it were like this and this?
    ... in short...
    ESTJ: Respect mah authoritah!
    ENTP: No! YOU respect mah cool ideas!
    ...This doesn't make for a lot of fun interactions. Debates go nowhere. We're just on such different wavelengths. (I agree with the previous statement that it's a Te vs. Ti thing - same with INTPs as with ENTPs, only worse with ENTPs because of the clashing extraversion.)
    you known, i can't even see how that example proves your point. the rules are made by the people, for the people

  10. #30
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Since this thread has seen a full revival, I'll add my thoughts.

    The ESTJ/INTP relationship looks relatively good on paper:

    Both are T-doms. (Te for the ESTJ, Ti for the INTP) In theory, without a strong F from either side, they should be able to communicate without easily offending the other. (or, conversely, easily communicate without offending the other)

    ESTJ: Te Si Ne Fi
    INTP: Ti Ne Si Fe

    The two also have similar perceiving functions. (Si-Ne and Ne-Si) The main reason each person is the relationship can develop BOTH functions is because they conflict in the most minimal degree due to their operation in different areas.

    Conclusion:
    Why not?

    Postscript: I've yet to type a non-forum persona as ESTJ.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

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