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  1. #21
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    I don't really do this, but I can relate to what substitute was saying about being a "utility person" for friends. I'm good at catering to people. Now, sometimes when I'm talking, I might exaggerate something, but it's usually meant in a humorous way. Others might assume I'm being serious, but I'm probably not. If I'm talking about facts that I'm not sure about, though, I always back it up with "but I'm not positive about that." I'm too paranoid that it will come back to get me, and there's nothing I hate more than looking incompetent after acting confident.

    Strangely enough, the biggest compusive liar I've ever known is an ISTJ friend of mine.

  2. #22
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    It's like "I don't know" isn't in an ENTP's vocabulary, but reading these posts makes me think I'm just not looking at the big picture instead of seeing lots of bullshit, lol.
    INTJ's think they see everything. That's their problem. They are so damn certain they have the answers. ENTP's know they don't but they like to try to know and they like to see what works. Big picture thinking, maybe. But, it's more about wanting something more from life than answers.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #23
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    INTJ's think they see everything. That's their problem. They are so damn certain they have the answers.
    Only about a small number of things. At least, in my case.

    ENTP's know they don't but they like to try to know and they like to see what works. Big picture thinking, maybe. But, it's more about wanting something more from life than answers.
    Do you mean that we only want answers? Some INTJ's may think that, but its just a means to an end.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  4. #24
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiL View Post
    I might exaggerate something, but it's usually meant in a humorous way. Others might assume I'm being serious, but I'm probably not.
    This often turns out to be at the root of enormous misunderstandings between myself and many J's generally... I've been with a group of people and laughing and joking and just being full of shit in a tongue in cheek way, everyone else was aware I was pissing about and stuff, but then over a period of time one person's got increasingly pissy with me, only for it to turn out to be over the fact that wayyy back when, they thought something I said was prejudiced/retarded/narrow-minded or whatever; they'd actually thought I meant what I'd said and somehow the humorous/ironic undercurrents that everyone else caught, went over their head and they just took offence.

    I wonder with such people, whether they just need to be returned to the factory for their humour chip to be adjusted... or maybe it's just a thing J's can be prone to, I guess if your perception is oriented inwards then there's always a chance you're going to miss vital external cues and clues and misjudge situations...

    However it sometimes happens that even when I explain that I was only kidding, the best they can do for an apology for blatantly judging me and treating me like crap for weeks is to try and fob me off with "Well I don't think it's funny to JOKE about such things!"

    If "i don't know" isn't in ENTP's vocab, maybe "i'm sorry" is missing from some INTJ's
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  5. #25
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever had to make things up to be interesting. But maybe I'm just bullshitting myself.

  6. #26
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    This often turns out to be at the root of enormous misunderstandings between myself and many J's generally... I've been with a group of people and laughing and joking and just being full of shit in a tongue in cheek way, everyone else was aware I was pissing about and stuff, but then over a period of time one person's got increasingly pissy with me, only for it to turn out to be over the fact that wayyy back when, they thought something I said was prejudiced/retarded/narrow-minded or whatever; they'd actually thought I meant what I'd said and somehow the humorous/ironic undercurrents that everyone else caught, went over their head and they just took offence.

    I wonder with such people, whether they just need to be returned to the factory for their humour chip to be adjusted... or maybe it's just a thing J's can be prone to, I guess if your perception is oriented inwards then there's always a chance you're going to miss vital external cues and clues and misjudge situations...

    However it sometimes happens that even when I explain that I was only kidding, the best they can do for an apology for blatantly judging me and treating me like crap for weeks is to try and fob me off with "Well I don't think it's funny to JOKE about such things!"
    Fortunately I've never had anyone get pissed at me about that habit (at least if they have, they haven't told me). But I can see how misunderstandings could happen, and so I usually don't "seriously joke" like that unless I'm sure I'm dealing with people who will get it. Nothing is more annoying than saying something vulgar for humorous effect and then having to explain/make some backward apology for something that wasn't to be taken seriously in the first place. Plus, being female, I find that some of the things I say aren't recieved as well as they might be if they were coming out of a guy's mouth, and so I tend to repress that humor urge when meeting new people .

    I know that I don't know a lot of things, but I feel that my thought processes can be brought to bear successfully on a lot of things. In situations where I'm "experimenting" with applying my percieving methods to some subject I don't know much about, I never say anything (or intend to say anything) in a tone of absolute certitude. If I sound certain, my apologies, I shouldn't expect everyone to be able to read my mind.

  7. #27
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I dunno... my life experience says there are a lot of things a woman can get away with that a guy can't... for example, I'm pretty sure a woman can make jokes a lot lower below the belt than a guy can, without having to worry about getting punched in the face....

    But nah, it's not that I expect people to read my mind... I guess if other people mistook my meaning too then I'd sympathize with them a bit more, but when they're the only one who had a problem out of a bunch of others... I tend to be less ready to think of it as my 'fault' that they don't like me... and I guess also it's a sort of irritation with what I see as their being too ready to believe the worst of someone, like rather than either figure "he might've just been kidding, I'll wait see if I get any more clues about his character to figure whether he's the kind of asshole who'd mean that" or rather than picking a time to say to me "when you said that, did you mean it or were you just kidding?" and giving me the chance to clarify, they just sorta nurse a grudge and harbour all that resentment and project the blame onto me for the negative feelings they feel because they're hating me... ugh, I dunno, it's just a negative mentality that's alien to me, so I think that's why i get so irritated with it...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #28
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I guess, if you know something or spotted a possible truth in a discussion, the best way to convince your partner in discusion would be to lay out a resonable approach to your truth and then try to convince him with it. I especially like the IJ style, they actually grasp the new information, think about it and when you least expect it, they present you a working plan.

    I myself have learned to distinguish between fact and fiction. So if someone asks for my opinion and I have no information on the topic, I draw new connections and assembly a possibility what the answer would be and when I tell it, I mark it clearly to the asker that this was speculative. I guess that is something, I especially learned in engineering in University.

    But when it comes to personal conversations, I am really mood swung and driven to talk for the sake of talking. Most of the times it dependes on the seriousness of the conversation, in small talk you cant tell heaven from hell of the things I say.

    But I would never lie about facts or bend reality to put myself into a better light. Of that I think it has no style. That would be like searching for new ideas to a topic in front of someone, who patronizes you the whole time and tells you, you are wrong, you have to go this or that way.

    ---

    In personal conversations with entp, I think it is necessary to bear in mind that they like to speak in metaphors or figuratevily. I am more impressed by my discussion partner, if I said a sentence that has 3 to 5 possible meanings and he understands a sixth one, pointing back in the conversation that the first 5 were lame .

    But that is just wishful thinking . I try to adapt to my partner in conversation and not to disrespect him by confusing him. If I have something original, I will try to speak his words.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #29
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    I'm an INTP and I make up stuff to amuse myself. Usually it's pretty obvious to me that I'm joking, but I tend to deliver it in a way that's so deadpan that people have a hard time figuring out if it's real or not. I think I would do it a lot more often if I actually talked to people.

  10. #30
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foodeater View Post
    I'm an INTP and I make up stuff to amuse myself. Usually it's pretty obvious to me that I'm joking, but I tend to deliver it in a way that's so deadpan that people have a hard time figuring out if it's real or not.
    yeah we know and only INTP's laugh about it, come up with something new, it's getting boring
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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