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  1. #101
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    eh, EXTJ's are the bossier types. at least that's how they appear. it's hard to forget/not notice someone like that. chances are, we've met all 16 types before. it's just figuring it out and going "oh! so john's an INTJ!". EXTJ's are some of the easier types to classify.
    In that case, they’re far more likely to be ESTJs, who actually have a presence in mainstream society. Any sort of J may have a tendency to be bossy, especially ESFJs, ESTJs, ENFJs, and yes, ENTJs, but the chance of the person being ENTJ is exceedingly small by the simple math. Your comment about meeting one of each type throughout the course of one’s life is well taken but the same can be said for any mental irregularity. I’ve most likely come into contact with at least one Paranoid Schizophrenic (.4-.6% Population) and possibly even someone with Multiple Personality Disorder (6-10% U.S. Population) but the statistical rarity of each illness is so great that it would be impractical me to diagnose the first somewhat delusional person I meet as a Paranoid Schizophrenic.

    There simply are not enough ENTJs to fill the role of every manager, administrator, middle management employee, or “bossy” person in the world and the idea that it is somehow easy to type one only decreases the amount of meticulousness in the typing process and creates a greater amount of mistypes. When I personally began giving tests to people I was surprised by how many ENTJs I typed, friends and acquaintances that I had several weeks of contact with. It turns out, quite predictably from the cues given on this site, that all of these people turned out to be either ESTP or even ESFP. This is from an ENTJ, mind you. Can you imagine the accuracy of someone whose only contact with an ENTJ was through a three paragraph article on dubious website?

    Note: There is a higher prevalence of people with Multiple Personality Disorder than there are ENTJs. The lowest estimate I’ve seen for registered mental patients who carry MPD is 6% (Foote et al, 2006). The lowest estimate of ENTJ prevalence I’ve seen is 1%. Think before you type. If you type every abrasive person, you meet as an ENTJ than your conception of ENTJs will form as an abrasive personality type. Psychologists refer to this as confirmation bias.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    Note: There is a higher prevalence of people with Multiple Personality Disorder than there are ENTJs. The lowest estimate I’ve seen for registered mental patients who carry MPD is 6% (Foote et al, 2006).
    That's absurd! Wait, "registered mental patients?" That's the catch, isn't it.

  3. #103
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That's absurd! Wait, "registered mental patients?" That's the catch, isn't it.
    Exactly.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    Exactly.
    It still nullifies the point you were trying to make.

  5. #105
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It still nullifies the point you were trying to make.
    According to the US National Comorbidity Survey, nearly half the U.S. population meets the criteria for a mental disorder. Psychologists estimate that the amount of disorders that are actually diagnosed are only a fraction of those that remain unaccounted for, especially in poor and impoverished populations (poor medical care, lack of reporting through social stigma). It may be relatively small but it definitely doesn't nullify the point, and certainly not the post itself.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    According to the US National Comorbidity Survey, nearly half the U.S. population meets the criteria for a mental disorder. Psychologists estimate that the amount of disorders that are actually diagnosed are only a fraction of those that remain unaccounted for, especially in poor and impoverished populations (poor medical care, lack of reporting through social stigma). It may be relatively small but it definitely doesn't nullify the point, and certainly not the post itself.
    I am well aware of the hokum propaganda that is statistics on mental illness.

    Let me try to decipher your argument. Is it that you now estimate "At least 3% of the population has Multiple Personality Disorder."?

  7. #107
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I am well aware of the hokum propaganda that is statistics on mental illness.

    Let me try to decipher your argument. Is it that you now estimate "At least 3% of the population has Multiple Personality Disorder."?
    No, but what I am estimating is that MPD sufferers make up a fairly large portion of the population, larger than many people would believe, and quite possibly larger than the amount of ENTJs. The estimate for MPD sufferers (6-10%) is far to erratic for me to choose a specific number of 3% or otherwise. What are your misgivings with the psychiatric community?

    -It'd be nice if a mod moved this discussion to another thread, by the way.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    No, but what I am estimating is that MPD sufferers make up a fairly large portion of the population, larger than many people would believe, and quite possibly larger than the amount of ENTJs. The estimate for MPD sufferers (6-10%) is far to erratic for me to choose a specific number of 3% or otherwise, however. What are your misgivings with the psychiatric community?
    I don't need a school, a book, or professional community to tell me the obvious: That it's quite silly to believe there are more people with one of the most devastating disorders than people with an MBTI type.

    You could fill the Grand Canyon with incorrect yet official statistics.

  9. #109
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    A lot of people with mental disorders are unregistered and hence not listed on government statisitics.

    On the other hand, ENTJs are not that rare. Any ESTJs with sufficient frverloped intuition could become an ENTJ. Conversely ISTJ one othe most common type has a strong relationship with one of the most rare types INTJ. So I say that the MBTi is not that reliable. And any NT type could be rare.

    One more thing, one should never let the MBTI define their life, you are who you are , not what the MBTi letters tell you.

  10. #110
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I don't need a school, a book, or professional community to tell me the obvious: That it's quite silly to believe there are more people with one of the most devastating disorders than people with an MBTI type.

    You could fill the Grand Canyon with incorrect yet official statistics.
    That depends on what personality traits you’re trying to recognize. The MBTI itself is just a system used to organize a set of traits that are regularly observed, Detail Oriented versus Concept Driven, Extraverted versus Introverted, etc. So is the DSM-IV for that matter, which may very well be a list of deviant personality traits.

    There is a certain temperament associated with unusually high creativity. Subjects are open-minded, wide ranging in their emotional experiences, divergent in thinking style, and they make up a very small minority of any field. Some 50% of scientific knowledge is found by the small minority of these creative scientists. If I wanted to I could easily categorize these people into a personality type, call it a day, and there would probably be a smaller amount of them than people with certain mental illnesses. These are a list of personality traits, though the way they’d be organized under the Terman Assessment may be very different from the way they are organized under the Big Five or MBTI, if at all. There is no reason why the MBTI, which is rather arbitrarily organized through a list of functions and traits, cannot carry types that are disproportionately over or underrepresented.

    Statistics aren’t all bad, though they’re admittedly easy to manipulate. Your attempt to notice the population make-up of the last study I posted was extremely impressive and saves you from the mistakes most people tend to make with them. Other than that, the validity of a statistical find goes up with the amount of studies proclaiming the same results. Repeatability is the essence of the scientific method and in this case there are two other mainstream studies on the U.S. population that yielded similar result to this one. These are (Bliss & Jeppsen, 1985) and (Ross et al, 1992).
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

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