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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Default How do you spot an ESTJ female?

    I have a job interview today, and I am terrified of ending up with an ESTJ female boss. I would be her personal assistant so there would be a lot of close interaction. Because I am so highly opinionated, I don't get along well with them. We're always butting heads, and we don't speak the same language.

    Anyhow I have the interview this afternoon.
    I don't care if I get any other SJ , or any other type for that matter.

    What signs do I watch for so that I can tell if she's an ESTJ or not?

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I have a job interview today, and I am terrified of ending up with an ESTJ female boss. I would be her personal assistant so there would be a lot of close interaction. Because I am so highly opinionated, I don't get along well with them. We're always butting heads, and we don't speak the same language.

    Anyhow I have the interview this afternoon.
    I don't care if I get any other SJ , or any other type for that matter.

    What signs do I watch for so that I can tell if she's an ESTJ or not?
    The first time you see her, she's got her foot on your neck?

    Well, if you have such strong issues with ESTJ women, wouldn't you recognize them as soon as you run into them? Based on what you said, you should feel uncomfortable, conflicted, and want to argue with them, and you'll feel like they're dominating the situation, bossing you around, etc.

    ESTJ women like to take charge. They tend to prescribe action (concrete action) before they really "analyze" the situation; the application of power is more important, and they can change direction as they go if necessary. They have strong opinions, usually, and aren't afraid to state them, nor immediately challenge ideas they don't understand or think are impractical/stupid.

    During an interview, you might overwhelmed, intimidated, like you're being interrogated, etc. They don't mince words, usually, or bandy around, they tend to cut right to the point of disagreement.

    Usually if you want to win them over, you have to come across as bold/confident, state your beliefs directly/emphatically, put everything on the table, make sure your suggestions/ideas are logical and practical, and don't take what they do personally.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    It would be nice if it were that easy.
    You would think I would see them coming a mile away, wouldn't you?!
    I've only known of 3 in my life and they weren't there for very long, if you get my drift.

    The one who was my boss started out fawning all over me, giving me things, talking nice.
    So it's like they're in stealth mode at the beginning.
    Then she started inventing all these hoops for us to jump through just for the sake of having hoops to jump through - like a sign in/sign out sheet. There were only FOUR of in in the office!!
    Before too long I felt like I needed to ask permission to go to the restroom!

    Then she would gossip to me about the other people in the office. And she'd say stuff like, I've been watching you. I see what's going on. And I'd get all paranoid even though I wasn't doing anything wrong. But my fear of being constantly scrutinized and misunderstood - because she did NOT understand the Ns - argh!!

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    It would be nice if it were that easy.
    You would think I would see them coming a mile away, wouldn't you?!
    I've only known of 3 in my life and they weren't there for very long, if you get my drift.

    The one who was my boss started out fawning all over me, giving me things, talking nice.
    So it's like they're in stealth mode at the beginning.
    Then she started inventing all these hoops for us to jump through just for the sake of having hoops to jump through - like a sign in/sign out sheet. There were only FOUR of in in the office!!
    Before too long I felt like I needed to ask permission to go to the restroom!
    She must have been a neurotic one, then.

    Any ESTJ worth his or her salt doesn't play around with indirect behavior like that. ESFJs tend to do that more because they have the whole Fe thing going, and so they try to play by the "social rules" and just undermine/break them behind the scenes. Are you sure they weren't maladjusted ESFJs?

    ESTJs don't really care about the social rules if they think the rules are stupid. They will change the rules if they don't like them, but otherwise enforce them wholehog. They aren't catty, they'd just as soon gut you in clear sight.

    Then she would gossip to me about the other people in the office. And she'd say stuff like, I've been watching you. I see what's going on. And I'd get all paranoid even though I wasn't doing anything wrong. But my fear of being constantly scrutinized and misunderstood - because she did NOT understand the Ns - argh!!
    That's just creepy.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Well...
    It happened a few years ago.
    I spent my Christmas vacation with my MBTT books trying to figure out why I was having such a hard time getting along with my new boss.
    Once I figured out she was an ESTJ, it all made sense.

    One of the first things she did when she came into power was she cleaned out the whole place and threw practically everything away.
    She rearranged all the furniture.
    I would overhear her on the phone lying - I mean talking - to the owner about how my previous boss was doing a lousy job. He was one of the nicest men I have ever known - probably ENFJ.


    Apparently she didn't think her stupid hoops were stupid.

  6. #6
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    The good news is she might be an xNFJ.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    ...I would overhear her on the phone lying - I mean talking - to the owner about how my previous boss was doing a lousy job. He was one of the nicest men I have ever known - probably ENFJ.
    Actually, to her, she was probably telling the truth... from her perspective.
    Or in a way that supported what she was trying to accomplish.

    Everything is subject to Te, remember, not Ti or some other "essence of things" function.

    So "truth" in a sense is "whatever accomplishes the practical purposes." It's Te truth, grounded in Si -- what's worked in the past and what values she carried from childhood.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, to her, she was probably telling the truth... from her perspective.
    Or in a way that supported what she was trying to accomplish.

    Everything is subject to Te, remember, not Ti or some other "essence of things" function.

    So "truth" in a sense is "whatever accomplishes the practical purposes." It's Te truth, grounded in Si -- what's worked in the past and what values she carried from childhood.
    Oh I know! That's the way she saw it!
    That's what was scary about it!
    And that's why I didn't like her and I would never want to work for anyone like her.

  9. #9
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Oh I know! That's the way she saw it!
    That's what was scary about it!
    It is definitely sort of frightening to see the inherent nature of things (personal or impersonal) being violated just to further external purposes.

    And that's why I didn't like her and I would never want to work for anyone like her.
    I do okay with ESTJs... but I know how to manage them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Actually, to her, she was probably telling the truth... from her perspective.
    Or in a way that supported what she was trying to accomplish.

    Everything is subject to Te, remember, not Ti or some other "essence of things" function.

    So "truth" in a sense is "whatever accomplishes the practical purposes." It's Te truth, grounded in Si -- what's worked in the past and what values she carried from childhood.
    That reminds me of a quote on facebook from an ESTJ:

    "the ability to win an argument does not necessarily make one correct"
    ~ Truth ~ Freedom ~ Health ~ Love ~ Communication ~ Humor ~ Respect ~

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